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26 Jan 2023 23:50:19
Chicago Trades
Domi
Blackwell

Toronto Trades
Kerfoot
NRobertson (LTIR)


This is a trade proposal that a rebuilding and playoff team both do, Kerfoot and Domi both UFAs after this season, Blackwell is a veteran bottom 6 Winger that was with Toronto last playoffs so they know what he brings to the ice, NRobertson is the key for Chicago and even though injured once again he is a prospect that could be a Top 6 Forward next season.


Thoughts ?

Believable11 Unbelievable16

27 Jan 2023 00:49:49
- CHI reportedly wants a 1st or equivalent for Domi.

- Robertson is much-hyped by leaf media, but he’s an undersized 21 year-old, on LTIR, with only 7 points in 21 NHL games?

- Kerfoot is a UFA…. why exactly would a rebuilding team want him?

- why would CHI include Blackwell too? He isn’t much, but CHI is already losing the best player in this deal…. AND they have to give up an extra piece?

This deal helps the leafs and the leafs only.

🚫 Homer Trades.

Agree15 Disagree12

27 Jan 2023 13:24:56
Chickenfoot
Chicago to start won't be getting a 1st Rounder in any trade for Domi, they will with PKane and Toews but not Domi.
Secondly Domi like Kerfoot is on an expiring contract and yes Domi is a better player over Kerfoot but not by much, they could possibly flip Kerfoot by the deadline for probably a 3rd Rounder.
So in the end it's really Blackwell for NRobertson and that's a win for The Black Hawks even though NRobertson has been injured a lot, being only 21 years old he is still young enough to become a Top 6 Forward.
And finally don't you think Chicago wants to be last overall to have the best chance at drafting Bedard?
Getting rid of assets like Domi etc helps in that.

Agree7 Disagree11

27 Jan 2023 15:41:03
- teams in the hunt for the lottery want all the picks and prospects they can get Pinball. They don't trade for UFA's like Kerfoot in the hopes they can re-trade him to get the value they should have gotten.

- Domi is apparently being looked at by multiple teams. If you want him you'll have to offer more than the others.

- the only way a team like CHI would take a UFA is as a cap-dump to facilitate the exchange of assets that would benefit them. You have to include compensation when you're sending salary out the door.

- this trade would be great for your leafs, but ignores what CHI wants.

- Robertson is a small 21 year old with 7 points in 31 NHL games. In 3 years he hasn't been able to earn a spot with the big club. He isn't a high-value prospect.

Agree10 Disagree10

27 Jan 2023 15:59:38
Lol you’re out to lunch if you think Domi returns a 1st. Taylor Hall returned a 2nd.

Agree8 Disagree11

27 Jan 2023 18:49:09
VB - what happened to your statement about it you’re throwing insults you’ve already lost the argument? You’re all over the place man😄. What’s with using comments like “out to lunch”, or “dumb” in the previous post? What a train wreck🙄. You are unintentionally hilarious.

I said CHI is looking for a 1st. Read it again if you have to. Whether they get it or not they won’t be settling for Pinball’s offer.

I’d have to respect your opinion to be offended by it. Reading your rants is quite an adventure. I’m not sure why you find me so fascinating but take a deep breath, go for a walk, or something. You don’t come across as someone who is well. Take care of yourself 👍.

Agree8 Disagree7

27 Jan 2023 22:38:59
Well said Chickenfoot.

Agree6 Disagree4

27 Jan 2023 23:53:57
Thanks Jet, you always have my respect, agree or disagree. It’s always a pleasure 👍

There’s nothing like a good hockey convo or debate. Bring your best and leave the rest, especially the crazy stuff. No one needs it.

Agree7 Disagree7

28 Jan 2023 00:57:36
I didn’t throw an insult nor were we engaged in an debate it was a simple statement that I made. The world doesn’t revolve around you. The Blackhawks will settle for the best offer they can get even if it is a 5th round pick. He was traded last deadline for some guy named Tyler Isomamoto and Robertson is certainly more valuable then him.

Agree3 Disagree8

26 Jan 2023 22:36:14
Chicago Trades
Domi*

Toronto Trades
NRobertson (LTIR)

*Chicago retains 50% of Domi's Contract.

Domi on an expiring contract and Chicago probably going to unload Domi, PKane and Toews, they will be adding a young player that has been injured more than anyone would like, but adding him for next season is a positive step for The Black Hawks.

Maple Leafs looking to add in The Top 6 without giving away the farm, would get that in this proposal.


Thoughts ?

Believable1 Unbelievable14

27 Jan 2023 00:51:12
Wow…brutal….

Agree10 Disagree7

27 Jan 2023 14:20:30
This isn't even close.

Agree10 Disagree0

26 Jan 2023 18:02:05
MTL: Monahan (50% retention)

COL: 3rd ('25) + 6th ('23)


Monahan was playing well this year, but ultimately injuries have led him to miss almost half of MTL's games.

He is an ideal, 2-way Center, and a personality that would mesh well with any dressing room. The problem is he just can't stay healthy.

IF Monahan returns, plays well, and stays healthy, maybe that 3rd becomes a 2nd, but at this point I think that's a stretch.

It's hard for a team to confidently trade for a guy who has trouble staying healthy, especially for a playoff run, but for a 3rd and a 6th with 50% retention is prudent risk for COL to take.

Believable15 Unbelievable13

27 Jan 2023 03:30:28
For a 3rd and 6th I'd rather just try and negotiate a contract to keep him around, help mentor the young guys. However, out of respect to the player, ask him what he wants.

I dont think the evaluation is off, just he's such a good guy to have around for all the youth., he's really not that old himself. I honestly don't know what a contract for him would look like, but if the price is reasonable, and he's open to the rebuild process, I think that could be very valuable for Montreal.

Agree4 Disagree3

26 Jan 2023 14:52:21
Arizona trades Vejmelka, Chykrun, Ritchie, Crouse, and the big young defense man (Brown?) for Edmontons Nurse, Barrie, Puliarvi(??), Campbell, 2023 1st, a prospect, and 2024 1st. This gets the Oilers cap space, fills many of their needs, and settles the Goaltending for them.

The Oilers have to over pay and even this may not be enough? The Coyotes can then peddle Barrie and Puliarvi if they so choose? Not sure if Campbell has a no trade clause?

Believable4 Unbelievable15

29 Jan 2023 01:16:11
I actually would like to see the Leafs try this with Murray, Robertson, Hollowell, Kerfoot, Abruzee, 2023 1st, and Neimela or Sandin?

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Jan 2023 07:39:04
Trade to be completed at this summers draft

Jets trade Dubois

to

Montreal for Kirby Dach and Kaiden Guhle.

Believable2 Unbelievable19

26 Jan 2023 11:34:58
There is no way MTL overpays to get him when they can sign him as a UFA after next season.

WPG and their fans deserve fair value for Dubois. Unfortunately the player has made that near impossible. The whole league knows where he wants to play.

The most likely scenario is that Dubois is traded to a contender at next year’s deadline, and signs in MTL as as a UFA after next season.

Agree11 Disagree8

26 Jan 2023 13:20:36
No from Winnipeg. Guhle as an LHD and good as he is, isn't needed. Dach is an okay winger, but isn't good enough to make up the difference. There just isn't enough value there as the Jets would get more for Dubois as a pure rental at next years TDL.

Agree0 Disagree6

26 Jan 2023 15:15:15
No for both.

Dach is playing as a solid possession player with a projected 50-55pts this year and as a 21 year old. My guess is, on a team like the jets, he would've easily been a 60-70pt player.

Guhle, as a 21 year old is already a solid top 4 option and projects as a top pair dman.

Dubois is at a PPG production right now and the Jets need to win now. Trading him away doesn't really help them, although they would get tons of talent with Dach and Guhle

Agree4 Disagree1

26 Jan 2023 16:42:27
The Jets need to trade him at the draft if he doesn't want to sign a long term deal. He might be happy playing for the NYR, Kings or Bruins as well as the Canadiens.

Agree3 Disagree1

26 Jan 2023 17:40:44
ISLAND JET: I tend to agree with most of your takes on the Jets, but a Dubois trade seems like it makes the most sense at the trade deadline next year when he's a UFA.

I just can't see any team giving up fair value for him when they know he's likely to not re-sign with them. He would be a solid add for any team's playoff run next year. It's an unfortunate situation for the Jets and their fans.

If it does happen at the draft this June, perhaps there'll be another team with a player of similar value that they can't re-sign for some reason. Whatever happens I hope the Jets get a fair deal.

Agree7 Disagree7

26 Jan 2023 18:20:45
The most likely scenario if Dubois won't resign for more than one year with the Jets this summer, is that the Jets trade him this summer.

They'd likely let his agent talk to teams where he is willing to sign long term and the Jets would take the best offer from those teams.

Agree0 Disagree3

31 Jan 2023 03:41:56
Why doesn't Montreal keep Dach, keep gruhle and just sign PLD as a free agent instead of giving up anything?

Agree0 Disagree0

25 Jan 2023 15:39:21
Toronto Trades
McMann
NRobertson (LTIR)
1st Round Pick 2023

Vancouver Trades
Kuzmenko

Canucks will be trading off most of if not all of their expiring contracts, Kuzmenko I believe will put himself out on the open market to get as much as possible for himself imo, so I do see Vancouver trading him.

Leafs being all in looking to improve on Wing and possibly Defense add a player that will make the Top 6 and Bottom 6 better adding Kuzmenko and moving Jarnkrok to the Bottom 6, they are giving up some future in this deal but it's worth it imo.


Thoughts ?

Believable6 Unbelievable16

25 Jan 2023 17:15:17
I wonder why more teams don’t trade guys then resign them the following offseason? Canucks should definitely trade Kuzmenko and it seems like a good fit so there’s a good chance he resigns anyways. Also I say the Canucks take that for sure.

Agree2 Disagree4

25 Jan 2023 17:52:39
This is definitely believable. I'm a fan of Robertson so it would be tough to see him go. However got to wonder if the Canucks would be interested with him being injured and whether he's able to finally take the step to being effective in the NHL and if his shoulder heals accordingly. Kuzmenko on the Leafs would be ideal though lol.

Agree2 Disagree3

25 Jan 2023 18:16:36
EBS: it’s a lot to ask of a player. Most wait a long time too to be a UFA and have a shot at seeing who amongst the 32 NHL teams wants them most, or who has the best fit for them. It’s even more complicated for a player with a family.

Besides, if you really like a player, and want to re-sign them, you’re taking a big chance that they might like their new Team situation better. Getting traded can be exciting on the ice, but it gets complicated behind the scenes in a bunch of ways.

Agree7 Disagree7

25 Jan 2023 18:41:15
I don’t think Kuz returns more then a 1st.

Agree0 Disagree11

25 Jan 2023 21:10:22
Throw Schenn in and substitute Steeves or Abruzze for McCann and add Hollowell and it is a deal.

Agree0 Disagree6

24 Jan 2023 16:19:22
Toronto Trades
McMann
Holl
Woll (AHL)
1st Round Pick 2023
2nd Round Pick 2024

Vancouver Trades
Kuzmenko
LSchenn

With Kuzmenko and LSchenn both being UFAs after this season The Canucks in this proposal get future assets, and could like any Team resign both of them back after this season ends.

Leafs all in improve upfront and on Defense making a trade like this without having any Cap issues adding both Kuzmenko and LSchenn.


Thoughts ?

Believable7 Unbelievable23

24 Jan 2023 16:52:53
not much value coming back to Canucks.

Agree15 Disagree8

24 Jan 2023 17:11:47
Trade Breakdown.

Kuzmenko - McMann, Woll, 1st Rounder
LSchenn - Holl, 2nd Rounder

Like I stated in my proposal because Kuzmenko and LSchenn are UFAs after this season, this is about right value wise from The Leafs or any team looking to add these 2 players imo.

Agree6 Disagree16

24 Jan 2023 18:34:25
PINBALL: UFA’s, in a cap world, have MORE value than players WITH term left.

You are implying because they are UFAs they are worth less. That isn’t how it works.

Agree16 Disagree16

24 Jan 2023 19:34:41
Again. I doubt Holl waives his trade clause to go to a non contending team. Kuzmenko alone is likely going to fetch a 1st, a decent to good prospect, and likely another draft pick. His cap hit is under a million. So any contending team that has limited cap space will likely be in on him. He's a great secondary scoring option. We watched Chiariot fetch a 1st last year so I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Schenn gets one this year. Woll has been great at the AHL level but the goalie market is not great this year so he doesn't hold a tonne of value. Rather the Leafs hold onto him in the event Murray or Samsonov get hurt. McMann doesn't carry a tonne of value either. Id love to see the Leafs get Schenn, but I bet the asking price is ridiculous for him.

Agree7 Disagree2

24 Jan 2023 20:08:42
Chickenfoot
Players that have term not UFAs have more value especially if a team is trading a 1st Round Pick, Dubas in general doesn't like trading for a player on an expiring contract as they can walk after that season.
I really don't understand your logic in what you said.

Agree3 Disagree8

25 Jan 2023 01:51:58
PINBALL: in a capped out league it’s a fact. Teams that want to add for a playoff run, who are up against the cap in the current year (most of the league), prefer to add UFAs because they can usually get some cap retention for the current year, and their cap obligations don’t go into the next season.

Since you singularly view the league through a leaf lens, and a leaf lens alone, let me explain it in a way that may make sense to you.

- Dubas overspent on his core 4, allocating half his cap to 4 players.
- This left the other half of his cap to fill in an NHL roster.
- This meant he could never finish the leaf rebuild, and every year it’s a scramble to fill in the roster with league minimum players, while losing key pieces year after year.

Next year Bunting is the guy most likely to be the latest Hyman. So, if Dubas can add a piece or two for a playoff run this year, and do it on a UFA so that he doesn’t wreck his slim chance of re-signing Bunting the next year, then there’s real value to going the UFA route.

I’m surprised in some ways that this is news to you, but in some ways I’m not at all surprised. Either way, trust me, it’s a thing🙄.

Agree10 Disagree10

25 Jan 2023 11:56:11
UFA’s don’t have more value. They’re easier to trade for and depending on the cap implications might make more sense. Goodrow and Coleman aren’t getting 1st+ from Tampa if there UFA’s.

Agree2 Disagree7

25 Jan 2023 13:26:22
That's debatable Ebsolutely. All depends on the quality of the UFA and if the team trading is already stocked with prospects or if they are tight on the cap.

Agree6 Disagree0

25 Jan 2023 14:32:39
EBS:

- to a team that is capped out, who is also capped out the next year, adding a UFA is far more desirable than adding someone with term.

- you mentioned the examples of Goodrow & Coleman, and that Tampa wouldn't trade a 1st for them. TAM traded a 1st & a prospect for each of them in 2020.

- TAM is unlikely to trade for either once again because they both have term left on their deals, and TAM is unlikely to be able to add anyone with term given their cap situation.

- TAM knows how to take care of business better than most, and you can bet they'll be adding UFA's given their cap situation in the coming years.

- it's been widely reported that TAM is likely to reacquire pending UFA Luke Schenn.

I thought it was widely understood why capped-out teams favour adding UFA's over players with term?

TAM is an excellent example of why economics and cap issues often supercede the old notion of trading for term. In a capped out NHL, when making NHL Trade Deadline Deals, it just makes sense.

Agree10 Disagree9

25 Jan 2023 17:17:09
I agree UFA’s are likely the trade target for contenders but that doesn’t mean they have more value. Tampa traded for those guys when they still had a full year left on there contracts.

Agree1 Disagree0

25 Jan 2023 18:19:34
EBS, for a team up against the cap in the current and subsequent years, a pending UFA is more valuable than a trade target with term, period.

Agree8 Disagree8

25 Jan 2023 19:00:39
It’s crazy how wild this guys takes are. UFAs are easier to fit in to a teams cap structure and are traded more because teams that know they aren’t contending will try to make value out of 1 year contracts instead of losing them for nothing. Obviously you’d rather have a low interest rate locked in at a longer term then chance it to the market. That’s the same way teams view players. Having a 1 year contract on a good player means there is a possibility of him walking. Now imagine if you had the possibility of losing your house is you weren’t willing to accept a 15% interest rate. I don’t know how I can simplify this more for you but I’ll reiterate that there are more UFAs then players with term traded because teams can fit them into their structure easier with retention/ LTIR/ Etc + the willingness for other teams to trade those UFAs. This isn’t an opinion this is a fact. Trying to argue this is flat earth belief esque.

Would you rather have McDavid for on a 1 year contract or 8 year contract in a trade? Obviously 8 years and on top of that contract signed earlier are at a better value due to accumulated inflation. ( I’m assuming you don’t know what that means but it means that when a deal is made let’s say in 2026 when the cap is at 90 million it will be worth less ( better bargain ) then it is in 2030 when the cap is 100 million.

This is logic vs dreamland talk. Queue the cold angry response with tons of unfactual and baseless claims. You know you lost an argument when you throw insults.

Agree3 Disagree13

27 Jan 2023 18:56:07
My favourite part of this was how you refer to my “wild takes”, and then go into a rant about interest rates.

The “flat earth-esque” insult was nice, and pairs nicely with the insults at the end, with a finish of “you know you lost the argument when you throw insults “.

Wow…now THAT is one hot mess…and a great example of being hilarious without trying.

Wow….

Agree8 Disagree5

24 Jan 2023 15:20:53
I still think there could be a market for JT Miller.

Vancouver

JT Miller (5.25 million @ 50% retained = 2.625 million)

To

Boston

Trent Frederic ( 1.05 million)

Jacob Zboril (1.137 million)

1st round pick 2023

Boston would keep their window open long while not sacrificing their future with Fabian Lysell. This would only happen if Bergeron and Krejci decided to retire. Boston would assume Millers contract at 7 million next year.

Vancouver gets their reclaimation project in Zboril, a former first round, and a first round pick (which lets face it, practically a second round pick).

Lastly does anyone know if JT Miller's current contract could be traded but have his extension contract back in Vancouver....so a team trading for him has the flexibility in deciding if he works out well for them?

Believable8 Unbelievable11

24 Jan 2023 18:46:58
This is pretty interesting Bee.

Yes, you can make the trade, as VCR is currently not bound within the clause for the existing term, and the next contracts don’t yet apply. VERY clever on your part.

You can debate whether BOS or another team would or would not want to take on an 8M contract x 7 years which begins when the player turns 30, or how much VCR would get or give to trade a contract like that, but it’s pretty outside the box thinking 👍.

Agree8 Disagree7

24 Jan 2023 19:28:21
@ 50% retained the Canucks can get alot more in my opinion.

Agree3 Disagree0

24 Jan 2023 19:56:00
If van retain, do they have to retain on the contract extension as well? If they do, impossible, vancouver wont retain 4m on 8 a year contract.

Agree1 Disagree0

24 Jan 2023 20:23:09
GIS: VCR would only have to retain on the current deal, not the contract that kicks in next season👍.

Agree9 Disagree6

24 Jan 2023 23:19:47
Horvat and Schenn, maybe, but not Miller, thanks.

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Jan 2023 12:53:54
@seabass2011

Boston would have to add for schenn and horvat. Boston would be crazy to trade for Horvat with no contract extention in place, therefore I would argue that Boston would have to add.

Agree0 Disagree0

 


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