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01 Nov 2018 15:22:06
Out of all the teams That insiders kinda picked as having the most interest in Nylander (Carolina, Minny, NYR, LA) there’s a mid 20s Dman with term that would be an obvious centrepiece except LA.

Looking at what they could possibly trade that make the leafs happy is harder. Obviously drew doughty is a superstar RHD still in his 20s but that ship sailed when he signed that extension. Their other Dmen are either older, not established enough or Dion Phaneuf lol. I’m a fan of Muzzin but he’s turning 30 and left handed. I would be fine with the age if he was a righty or being a lefty if he was younger, but straying from both those criteria seems like it’s reaching

So a very out of the box idea came to me. What about trying for a package including the rights to Slava Voynov?! He is reportedly looking to come back to the NHL. He’s a 28 year old RHD, high skill, 2 way, great skater. He looked amazing at the Olympics (albeit not a best on best tourney) . Now what complicates things is that he still owes the league a suspension upon his return and domestic assault is a very sensitive topic right now in society and Toronto (Blue Jays just traded a good young pitcher for similar accusations).

I wouldn’t trade a young player like Nylander with his potential and upside for just the rights to a guy who hasn’t played in the NHL in 3 years, but he could be a steal if he returns to form. But LA also has some decent prospects and veteran wingers with size (Clifford similar to a Kassian) who could take Kapanens spot in the bottom 6 since he replaces Nylander in the top 6.

It’s an ‘out there’ thought but if there’s no perfect 1-for-1 deal out there that makes sense for both teams, maybe a package that fills a RHD, size and grit up front and stash a prospect or pick for the future could work

What do you think?!

Unbiased Jim

1.) 01 Nov 2018 17:09:48
Isnt this similar to why you wouldn't want Kassian? Maybe not worth the hassle. I agree Voynov would probably be good for the Leafs however, it's been a few years. and with domestic violence front and center in everything these days, I think this is a distraction the Leafs don't need. and neither does Voynov of he comes back. As a Leafs fan, you already know, things will be blown up 100× more .
I'm not defending Voynov, not at all. But. if he's going to come back. best to got to an American team, where he can roam about and maybe not get noticed as much. he wouldn't get that privacy in Canada.
I understand ya want to improve your team Jim. just this is one I'd stay away from.


2.) 01 Nov 2018 17:14:35
I read an article today with a headline "Nylander for Faulk? "
And the article lists Car and LAK as interest for Nylander and offering Faulk/ Pesce or Muzzin/ Martinez. The article also mentions how old the LAK guys are as well.


3.) 01 Nov 2018 19:18:40
I agree with Sosa. You don’t want a party animal on the team but a wife beater is ok? He’s a really good defenseman but it sounds like trouble.


4.) 01 Nov 2018 19:40:25
Toronto is at a disadvantage with every team interested in Nylander because unless its a sign and trade not too many teams would want this Leafs headache. This reason alone would decrease Nylanders value and it will get worse the closer it gets to Dec 1st.


5.) 01 Nov 2018 23:50:26
@sosa, i hear ya. But for a RHD who if he never left the NHL would be a top pair guy easily I believe, could be worth it. The cost to acquire a top pair, or even top 4 RHD is so expensive, that getting one with a history like his may be the only way right now. And at the same time address a cpl other things.

With Kassian, acquiring players like him is not difficult or rare. Not at all in the same realm as a top pair Dman so I would just get one without the History and eliminate that risk. I’m no fan of Voynovs behaviour either, but it wouldn’t be for a 4th liner. It’s for the chance at a very undervalue top D.

Reminds me of The kaepernick thing. He doesn’t have a job because he protested? NO, he doesn’t have a job because he sucked and protested. If we have learned anything over the years it’s that people forgive players in all sports as long as their on field/ on court/ on ice performance outweighs their private life’s BS. Tom Brady could have any of field problems he wants, be a complete douche and he would have a job because he wins.

I would much rather find a deal with a good, solid RH top pair or too 4 guy locked up long term. Which is why pesce at 4 mill for 6 years looks like a near perfect fit, but this is just spit balling something I hadn’t heard anywhere else.

LA wants offense, and wants to get younger and has been linked to Nylander. Leafs are close to contending which means they either need Nylander signed or need d help for him. Voynov wants to come back. Just thinking there’s a possible long shot fit.


6.) 01 Nov 2018 23:56:43
@Islandjet. Obviously it would always be a contract in place. That’s extremely obvious. Same as when leafs got Kessel in a similar situation and Habs got Drouin and just about every other big name RFA deal.


7.) 02 Nov 2018 00:51:28
I get it Jim. but take all of our thoughts out of it. what would worry me, ( there was talk Bergevin had interest in summer) . Is the media wouldn't let it go. and then he wouldn't even be able to go get a coffee in hockey crazy Toronto or Montreal or wherever in Canada.

If the guy is granted permission to come back. I think, for his sake. Best to go somewhere and be low key.

If none of the off ice stuff had ever happened, he's exactly what your team needs. he was really good player., and I'm sure still good
I agree somewhat, that this is different than acquiring a guy like Kassian.
Just a lot of risk. and a lot of drama for a market than can make anything even more dramatic than it needs to be.


8.) 02 Nov 2018 03:52:54
Would the US even allow Voynov back in the country I wonder? He still has to face deportation hearing there. He fled the country remember.


9.) 02 Nov 2018 04:34:39
That I don't know about., but was wondering about all that stuff. The legality of it all.


10.) 02 Nov 2018 10:25:51
Makes sense for sure. Well I was at the leafs/ stars tonight and Carolina sent 3 scouts and assistant GM Rick Dudley to watch which makes us think there could be something in the works. Then leafs bring Justin Holl, a 26 year old RHD, in to play his first game of the season (had 2 goals in his only 2 games last season) . Could it be that if Carolina is thinking of a deal involving Nylander and Pesce, that it would be a bit bigger and they want a Cheap RHD going back? Seemed like a ‘showcase’ call up but I’m just speculating/ guessing. Maybe Nylander and Holl for Pesce and a forward with size? Julien Gauthier?! Who knows. Fun to watch tho. We will see.


11.) 02 Nov 2018 12:18:11
It's fun to watch your GM say "we can and we will sign the big 3" and then not be able to get the job done and an important part of your team hold out and miss the first 12+ games of the season? Doesn't seem like much fun. Need him in the lineup or should have said F you and traded him already if it's the player being a dick. Figure it out not let it drag on this long.


12.) 02 Nov 2018 13:28:52
Imagine how crazy you would trash me if someone like Nurse held out and I said its "fun to watch tho".


13.) 02 Nov 2018 15:12:52
There is no shame in A GM realizing something isn't going to work and its time to change tactics. TOR GM needs to part ways with Nylander and land a young dman (pesce) to cover the #1 duties until TL is ready.


14.) 02 Nov 2018 18:10:23
I meant the trade speculation is fun to watch. Didn’t you just post something asking what cool stories are around the nhl? I know this isn’t new, but it’s easily he biggest off ice story in the league right now. I’ve said all along he should stay firm with Nylander. I don’t want him traded but if they trade him, I get it. I started by saying I still think he gets signed.

Dubas is playing the long game with a young player who has very little leverage, that’s doing his job. This decision determines the landscape of the team for 5+ years, why would I be upset about 12 games when the payoff or pain could last 5-10 years? Pretty short sighted comment. I was critical of Chiarelli about lucic contract, trading the Barzal pick, trading Taylor Hall. And those mistakes are going to cause pain to the franchise for 5-10 years. I can be patient for Dubas to do everything possible to avoid a mistake. We are okay man lol.


15.) 02 Nov 2018 18:15:53
Plus every day that passes, Nylanders cap hit for years 2-7 gets cheaper and is added onto this season where we are flush with cash and cap space. Again, I don’t believe this is a premeditated strategy, but his assistant GM did write the CBA and is well aware of that loophole. It is a nice added incentive not to cave early and overpay him or trade him for less than fair value.


16.) 02 Nov 2018 18:30:42
You were able to post positive things for like 36 hrs and hit your limit lol after saying you were tired of all the leafs/ oilers talk and arguing you jump on a leafs thread to chirp. And you’re right, the GM should just say F you and trade him in a hurry. Because that is never backfired before. No team in the league has traded a good young offensively talented winger for a decent Dman and then a year later said “damn that guy would look good beside our superstar centre, huh? ”. Oh wait, oilers did that with Hall, right? Then he went to the playoffs and won the Hart trophy? But you’re right, no need to be patient, just trade him and deal with the consequences later.


17.) 02 Nov 2018 21:17:15
I would see his Nylander situation it as frustrating, The opposite of fun. Nothing about one of your better players sitting out seems fun to me. Lmao, So you can post comments about Leafs stuff, but I can't comment myself?

All I said was that this Nylander situation doesn't seem like much fun and you're triggered.


18.) 02 Nov 2018 22:29:48
No. I said trade speculation is fun to watch, which is why we all joined this site, isn’t it? Lol and you flip that into dubas is failing and I’m having fun when I should be panicked lol it’s 12 games in.


 

 

01 Oct 2018 18:36:44
Mchiliney and Pickard waived by leafs. Carrick traded to Stars for 7th (becomes 6th if he dresses 50 times)

I think Sparks getting the job over Mac Is more a Dubas call than Babcock. Babcock would want whoever is going to give him the better starts when called upon this season. Dubas is looking at long term asset management. Mac was a waiver claim and Sparks is 10 years younger, drafted and developed in house.

Carrick never separated himself from a group of Dmen including Ozhiganov, Rosen, borgman, Holl, Marincin etc and he makes $1.3 mill where most of them make $650-925k. That’s kinda the return I thought we would get. When people were suggesting 4th round picks I said that’s wishful thinking.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 01 Oct 2018 19:41:00
Marincin sucks though. I don't care if Carrick makes 600k more than him. We don't needthe cap this year. i'd rather have just kept Carrick than Marincin smh. Marincin just played bad during camp and got a job. Smh.


2.) 01 Oct 2018 19:47:31
Marincin is somehow an above average Dman according to analytics. Dubas is an analytics guy. Marincin just played a big role for the championship marlies. Dubas was the marlies GM. Not sure how much all that weighed into the decision, but I agree with you that he shouldn’t be on the team. However, carrick hasn’t done anything to impress me over the last half of last season and this camp. If they felt he wasn’t going to play anyway, and sit in the pressbox, maybe it’s better for that to be Marincin. No one would take Marty and this frees up a roster spot for future moves maybe. I dunno.


3.) 01 Oct 2018 20:13:38
I’m ok with Carrick and Marincin never playing s game for the leafs again. I’ve heard that about Marincin and analytics, it sure makes me a non believer. He is an AHL defenseman at best. I’d play Borgman or Rosen ahead of him any day.


4.) 01 Oct 2018 20:45:52
@Leafs17, preaching to the choir lol which is why I’m somewhat doubtful of analytics as well. I don’t doubt that they have SOME value in assessing players, but they need to be used in moderation with some old school Eyetest evaluations. Babcock and Dubas each specialize in one of those styles, so hopefully they can accent each other and keep an open mind towards eachother and not get in a pissing contest.


5.) 01 Oct 2018 22:31:20
Carrick sucks. Marincin sucks. Leafs have a lot of defensive prospects, but outside of Liljegren and maybe Sandin, the rest of the guys are just plugs. Finding and retaining a 1RHD is going to be the most difficult task facing Leafs management to complete the roster. If we trade, it will be expensive. And drafting and developing another player will be time consuming.

We only have Tavares for seven years. That’s not actually a very big window of opportunity.


6.) 01 Oct 2018 22:57:04
A #1 RHD is obviously ideal, but pretty unrealistic both in what assets we would have to give away and where they would fit in salary cap wise. A good RHD, good in his own zone but still capable of moving a puck out would go a long way. Could acquire that without hurting the offense a ton and could probably pay one. Something similar to Adam Larson would be nice, just not at the cost of a Hart Trophy winner lol.


7.) 02 Oct 2018 11:39:18
@unbiasedjim

The problem is that even a half decent RHD still costs an arm and a leg. What is forgotten in the excitement surrounding the Hall-Larsson trade is the NJ eventually had to trade Henrique for Vatanen, a very sizeable payment in and of itself.

Getting a 1RHD via trade is going to be expensive. Best Leafs can hope for is to keep getting plugs on expiring contracts for cheap, like we did with Hainsey, and maybe Faulk next year, and hope Liljegren steps up sooner rather than later.


 

 

28 Sep 2018 17:36:09
Report is the leafs are actively shopping Connor Carrick this morning. I’m guessing that kind of says Ozhiganov will be the 6th man. Carrick won’t bring back anything of much value but could be a decent pick up for a young team. He plays pretty aggressive for his size and extremely intelligent. He’s a strong skater but not the quickest. When we got him he was a good prospect with high expectations here, unfortunately the emergence of Dermott and Holl, and the fact we have signed 4 European Pro dmen (Zaitsev, Rosen, Borgman and Ozhiganov) since getting him hash squeezed him out.

Canucks could be a nice fit. Maybe.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 28 Sep 2018 19:28:35
Yeah I'd say he's a warm body at best at this point.


2.) 28 Sep 2018 20:22:03
Yeah. He could develop into something. The problem is the leafs ‘growing phase’ went by really fast. He’s kinda in the same boat as Sparks, Babcock can’t afford to let guys make mistakes to learn anymore. Expectations are too high now and he need results. Which is why I think he’s really pushing for mchilleney to be the back up. Long term, keeping Sparks makes more sense, but MAC is capable of not playing for 25-30 days and then come in and put up a great game, something I don’t think Sparks would be able to do yet.


3.) 28 Sep 2018 20:52:59
Carrick and a 3rd for Trouba %25 retained.


4.) 28 Sep 2018 22:52:29
Good deal yupp. Might be too much for an over rated 3rd pairing Trouba.


5.) 29 Sep 2018 01:54:00
I thought that too. Was thinking the pick should be a 4th but made it a 3rd because Jets will retain some money on trouba to get the better pick. Good deal for both sides.


6.) 29 Sep 2018 02:18:47
Chicago should grab him, their defence is terrible so he would have a good shot at playing regularly.


7.) 29 Sep 2018 02:32:54
Carrick for Jerabek.


 

 

19 Sep 2018 23:23:32
Tor - C/ RW William Nylander, D Andrew Nielsen

VGK- D Colin Miller, D Nicolas Hague

If the leafs and Nylander can’t come to terms (I do believe they will fairly soon), then maybe they move on to address other areas

Leafs have plenty of capable wingers to play along side Matthews and Marleau, so kapanen, Leivo or Johnsson move up.

Leafs get a really good 2 way RHD, soon to be 26 years old, 4 years at $3.8 million, who already has connections to Kyle Dubas. They also get a real good LHD prospect.

Vegas has the cap space to pay Nylander and their RW depth is awful. afternoon reilly Smoth, it goes alex Tuch and Ryan Reeves. This pushes tuch to 3 and reeves to 4 where they should be. Nielsen is a giybthat could be a decent NHL Dman eventually but still a young project for sure. Just adds to their depth because they’re losing 2 D in the deal.

Leafs give up the best player but that salary of miller vs what Nylander wants is valuable on its own. Also a D core of

Rielly Miller
Gardiner Zaitsev
Dermott Ozhiganov
Hainsey

All of a sudden looks pretty solid while still maintaining one of the best toon 9 forward groups in the league of

Marleau Matthews Kapanen
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnson Kadri Leivo.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 19 Sep 2018 23:48:34
top 6 doesn't look that great without nylander. until kapanen can finish he's a 3rd liner. i would love to see conner brown get a shot at the top line, guy is under rated. and there's a reason he is above leivo on the depth chart.

seeing some lines at the first pre season game means very little to me. things will shake out a lot differently.

as far as the trade goes i would take miller in a heartbeat.


2.) 20 Sep 2018 00:47:27
Very well thought out imo, but I also doubt Nylander is going to be moved.

I don’t see how he/ his agent can seriously expect to get anything over $7mln when Pasta is better and only makes $6.7 mln or whatever and I don’t see how the leafs think they can get him signed to less than $6mln given other comparables. Doesn’t seem like they can be that far apart.


3.) 20 Sep 2018 02:58:06
What kind of a joke is this proposal? If you trade Nylander to Vegas, you better get William Karlsson back in return.


4.) 20 Sep 2018 04:41:15
I agree I think he gets signed, I've said that all along he will get 6-8 years around $6.5 mill. Just so many people talking trade now and the obvious move is for a RHD. I think miller is the right balance for Rielly. Good core age too. Hague if he keeps progressing could take dermotts spot on third pair next year when dermott takes Gardiners spot on 2nd pair, to save more cap again.

Just a thought. I don’t want to trade Nylander, but I like this option a lot better than Subban at $9 mill or Stephen Johns at any price lol which were previously suggested.


5.) 20 Sep 2018 06:54:54
Good post jim 😃.


6.) 20 Sep 2018 12:36:49
Pretty good trade. I like Nylander and Miller. Makes sense for both teams, Nylander could be great in Vegas and they can afford him. Is losing Miller creating too much a hole in Vegas D tho? They have a good tip six right now with the two big additions this summer don't they?
Also, you can't add Johnson and Lievo into "best top 9 in the league". You can say a great top 7 tho. Haha.


7.) 20 Sep 2018 12:42:15
@NylanderMagic. I post to get responses, so I won’t be rude about your response, but explain then why you feel the leafs need to take back a Centreman who would be either 3rd or 4th best on the team rather than a RHD who would immediately be your best?


8.) 20 Sep 2018 12:53:03
@yupp, I said still “one of the best top 9s” not “the best”, amd having tavares, matthews, marner, Kadri and Marleau on top 3 lines, plus could have put Brown instead of Leivo, forgot all about him and he’s scored 20, don’t know many teams that can roll out a better 9 to be honest.

Also I did feel it could leave a bit of a hole in Vegas D, but that’s what it would take to get a player like Nylander. Their team is good but not extremely deep in any position yet, so to get a RW, which is their worst position, it’s going to leave somewhere else noticeably weaker unfortunately.


9.) 20 Sep 2018 14:04:36
The value seems about right. It does leave a hole in the Vegas defense though like yupp said. I agree with ovie that Brown deserves to be moved up but I don’t think Kapanen has had much of a chance playing with some talent either. I bellieve Babcock has said himself that Brown seems to get the shaft often because of the depth up front.


10.) 20 Sep 2018 17:01:45
I like it, althoigh, still seems slightly underwhelming of a return, just because of Willys youth compared to Millers. maybe an added pick like a 2nd and Toronto adds in a guy like Freddy Gauthier? Idk.

I don't mind this tho. Would (obv) prefer to hang onto willly, as most would.


11.) 20 Sep 2018 17:06:41
I think brown gets relegated to lower lines, not because of skill, but because he’s so responsible and so versatile that you never have to worry about who he's going to play with or how many minutes he gets, he’s always going to just do his job.


12.) 20 Sep 2018 17:08:02
Good post, interesting trade. Props Jimmy boy!


13.) 20 Sep 2018 22:33:02
jim i whole heartedy agree brown is a gem because he just does his job. he's a really low rent toews in my eyes, love watching him play.

jims just on point with this.


14.) 21 Sep 2018 05:49:32
Brown was actually taught responsible play by his dad, Dan. He was an amazing minor league coach and has appenrently been offered jobs to coach junior but says he gets to be a hockey dad at the highest level and watch his son play for the hometown leafs every night. Doesn’t want to give that up.

Dan Brown had a 10 or 11 year old Select team and won the championship, they offered him the rep A team and he just took his select team to A, won the chanpionship, was offered a AAA team and took his same guys mostly, won it all a few times in a row before a bunch of his guys went to the OHL at 16. In the 2012 Draft when the leafs took Brown in the 6th round, 6 or 7 (not sure exactly) players that dan had coached all the way up went in the draft that year including Scott Laughton in the first round to Philly and Jake Paterson, their goalie, to Detroit in the 2nd or 3rd round. That’s extremely impressive and shows why Brown plays the game the way he does. My dad has actually known Laughtons grandfather for decades and he told us that.


 

 

05 Sep 2018 06:15:32
Tor - D Jake Gardiner (1yr x 4.05 mill), 2019 1st, 2020 3rd, F Jeremy Bracco

Min - D Jonas Brodin (3yrsx $4.16mill)

Gardiner is the leafs 2nd LHD behind Rielly. He has this season left and is due a raise. If he would take $5.25-5.5 mill it’s possible he could fit, however he may want to cash in for more after a few good seasons and he still isn’t exactly the Defensive player we need. Brodin is much more rounded player, a bit younger and 2 more years of cost certainty which is very important going forward in Toronto.

Minnesota gets a good puck moving LHD to take Brodins spot in the lineup. They’re also Gardiners hometown team so may be able to resign him a little cheaper than other teams. They get a mid to late 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder and a small but very skilled prospect who is stuck behind a lot of talent in Toronto. The Wild have a decent team but with Suter (33) Staal (33) Parise (34) and Koivu (35), stocking some younger assets doesn’t hurt.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 05 Sep 2018 06:25:42
Interesting if wild can sign Gardiner after the year.


2.) 05 Sep 2018 07:08:28
Not saying it’s the perfect move for Minnesota because Gardiner is going to be a UFA but is Brodin worth that?


3.) 05 Sep 2018 13:43:14
@ebs, I get what you’re saying but leafs are getting a player 3 years younger with 3 years term left. I feel like the cost certainty alone is worth a premium. Also we would be asking the Wild to take a player 3 years older with only a year left on his contract at a similar cap hit. They don’t need to make this change right now and if you don’t make it worth their while, they just won’t. A late first, a 3rd and Bracco I would be willing to sacrifice to make our D stronger and be able to keep our forward group together for 2 extra years cap wise. Others may not be so willing, but I feel it’s what it could take.


4.) 05 Sep 2018 15:47:42
And @mcjesus, minny could sign him the day the trade is made. They could have a 5 x $6mill extension ready to maximize their return.


5.) 05 Sep 2018 17:15:48
as a leafs fan I would rather trade gardiner for a better dman than brodin if he is traded at all. and personally I'm not sure brodin is worth a 1st,3rd and bracco in the first place. he has a career, 0.247 ppg and a career high of 25 points with 21 points last year. is he a good dman? Sure, but i'd rather put our pieces into a better dman. I understand the value of him being 3 yrs younger and 3 years term (nice good contract i will admit) but I definitely would rather have one year of gardiner+1st+3rd+bracco than brodin.

hope that wasn't too biased haha.


6.) 05 Sep 2018 19:38:38
@Big Z. That’s fair. I wasn’t worried at all about his career points per game or his pt total last year for 2 reasons. 1 is that no one on minny (forwards included) ever put up big numbers, I think mid 60s leads their team every year. Secondly, we will get plenty of offense from our forwards (arguably the best top 9 in the league), Rielly and Dermott and hopefully zaitsev again on the backend. I’m more concerned with the other half of the game that has plagued us for years.


7.) 06 Sep 2018 04:22:43
Think brodin and Gardiner would be a very nice pair but got to give one up for the other, its trading offensive de for defensive de which I'd agree Toronto would be better off for.


 

 

 

Unbiased Jim's talk posts with other poster's replies to Unbiased Jim's talk posts

 

16 Nov 2018 22:42:33
HockeyBuzz - Eklund says it’s weird for all his sources to agree on anything and yet they are all hearing he same thing. Leafs and Jets are talking about a Nylander/ Trouba swap, but Nylander wouldn’t be staying in Winnipeg. He would be flipped to Philly/ Carolina/ NYR for LHD help.

I always get a kick out of a lot of these Rumor guys and don’t believe much of it because 99% of the time it never happens. But this could make sense, not saying It’s true. But.

Leafs want a RHD that can play physical but still be mobile and is in their core age. That’s Trouba.

Jets have RHD and have apparently been looking for LHD. Jets don’t want to pay Trouba what he was asking last year and would prefer cost certainty.

Carolina apparently really wants Nylander, pesce/ Faulk aren’t enough on their own for Nylander, and the D that interests leafs the most (Slavin) wouldn’t be traded for Nylander alone and is a LHD.

So pieces would need to be added, a contract for Nylander and an extension for Trouba would have to be figured out. But could a Nylander, Trouba, Slavin swap work?! I dunno but interesting.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 16 Nov 2018 23:15:46
I just hope something happens soon lol. As bad as eklund is he probably knows just as much as anyone else it seems on this topic.


2.) 16 Nov 2018 23:50:53
Not much chance this trade will ever happen as Slavin, who is signed to a great contract, is #4 on the Hurricaines defense depth and would be a #2 left shot d-man behind Morrissey. Why would the Jets trade a #1 righty for a #2 lefty? I'm not sure what these other teams would give the Jets now to get them to part with Trouba. If the Jets can't sign Trouba by the draft then they might move him and then will have a choice of offers from Tor, Phil, NYR, Det, Edm and many others that want a #1 right shot d-man.


3.) 17 Nov 2018 01:10:37
I would be more interested in the deal if it was Slavin who ended up in Winnipeg rather than Pesce. Toronto would need to throw in a pretty good plus to get the wheels rolling either way and then it would depend on what Carolina and Winnipeg thought the difference was between Slavin and Nylander.

Really though I can't see the Jets moving Trouba before the summer.


4.) 17 Nov 2018 02:36:45
Wow for a number 4 d d-man Slavin plays a ton of minutes. weird.


5.) 17 Nov 2018 02:37:43
He’s number 1 on Carolina’s depth chart and he’d be number 1 on Winnipeg’s depth chart as he’s a top 10 dman in the game he’s already better then Vlasic imo him and Ryan Suter are very comparable.


 

 

06 Nov 2018 23:15:36
5th time in 16 days that Hurricanes assistant GM Rick Dudley is at the Scotia Bank Arena. I know executives stop in to see games and it doesn’t mean there’s anything more going on but 5 times with all the talk around Carolina and Nylander? It sure looks like they’re identifying other pieces that may be included if it gets to the point of trading Nylander.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 07 Nov 2018 13:56:38
Dudley was the same with the habs he would scout a lot of games when he was here too. But yeah 5 times in 16 days is a lot so their is something brewing for sure whether it happens or not is left to be seen.


2.) 07 Nov 2018 14:44:22
Yeah, I know he’s an active guy, he was with the leafs and moved around a lot too. Just with the connection made between the 2 teams and a cpl Times it’s been Dudley and 2-3 scouts, once was him and the head scout. I would think they’re looking at a cpl of the other guys, maybe Leivo, Brown, Dermott, Holl, as added players in a bigger deal for Nylander. We will see.


3.) 08 Nov 2018 05:11:33
Don’t think it would be Dermott. Leafs are really relying on him to fill the gap after Gardiner is finally run out of town.

Leafs/ Carolina trade rumors are really hearing up. It would be a real let down now if nothing happens.


4.) 08 Nov 2018 13:03:28
@LeafsGM I don’t think leafs want to trade dermott but he has value, canes are watching someone on the leafs and if it’s a big enough deal, I don’t think he’s untouchable. Although apparently a lot more people in the league are than I thought lol.


5.) 08 Nov 2018 18:10:19
Nylander is going to sign in Toronto still.
But him holding out is fun to watch tho.
"We can, we will". July 4, 2018.


6.) 09 Nov 2018 00:25:32
This isn’t a negative on Dubas though. You keep trying to paint it that way, but Nylander is the first guy up, 3rd best and 3rd most important of the big 3. Dubas is being tested by a veteran agent and a second generation NHL family and he’s not budging.

I haven’t heard a single fan on all the talk radio or anything I’ve read say “hurry up and just pay him” or frustrated with a dubas’ method. Most are okay waiting it out and the ones that are sick of it are saying Nylanders not a team guy for demanding far more than he’s worth and to get him out of here. I’m with the first group.

Every day that passes, his cap hit for this season goes up and the next 4,5,6,7 years are cheaper. I hope dubas strings him out till November 30th at 11:59pm and he still signs for $6.75 mill like he could have weeks/ months ago. That could make his cap hit under $6.3 mill for years 2-7. That’s the ideal situation for me. If he signs for $6.75 mill, that’s $82,000 a game. As of today he’s missed out on $1.23 mill he can never get back. Another $82gs tomorrow.


 

 

31 Oct 2018 16:08:33
I still believe leafs sign Nylander eventually as I find it hard to believe he sits out the whole year. Also don’t believe the KHL is a real threat. However, as it gets closer to December, they will have to consider trading him atleast. A lot of the insiders have identified (using common sense and Dubas travel path last week) a few teams they believe at the top of the list with regards to interest in Nylander. Obviously all this is contingent on these teams working out a contract with Nylander.

Carolina - Brett Pesce makes the most sense all around. 6 years at $4 mill is a huge asset and being a 23 year old RHD, he’s the position we need most and the right age for our core.

Minny - Matt Dumba is the obvious one, but I find it really hard to believe the wild move him with his upside and a brand new long term contract at a good cap hit. That’s why I would think Jonas Brodin is a possibility as he is still young enough at 25, doesn’t do anything flashy but is.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 01 Nov 2018 15:53:17
Yes jim it's starting to get a little sticky. This is my honest opinion if nylander can be signed for 7.25 or less I'd never do a 1 for 1 swap for pesce or Brodin. both are good but neither brings anything really spectacular to the team. And what I mean by that is who's to say lillegren or sandin wouldn't bring just as much to the table in a year or two at a cheaper price. As a habs fan ( with extreme bias of course) I wouldn't trade juulsen for pesce or Brodin straight up right now. Both of those guys have had years to develop and get better and turn into impact players but when you really watch them neither are. they are good but not great. i'd want something added if I was trading nylander for either of them.


2.) 01 Nov 2018 23:55:50
You make some good points for sure. i just think the situation of the teams make those scenarios very different. The habs aren’t at the same level as the leafs right now and can wait and see with juulsen or liljegren if they had him. What if leafs don't get pesce or someone and in 2 years liljegren isn’t ready or just plateaued and you wasted 2 years of matthews, marner, Tavares, Rielly, Andersen’s prime not going for it. I don’t think we need a superstar (obviously doughty would be nice), but a cheap, solid guy that can skate and move a puck and be efficient at both ends would go a long way on this roster.


3.) 02 Nov 2018 01:53:07
Thing with if the Leafs decide to move Nylander for a D it's for one that can play a top 4 role right now this season and to make them a better rounded team, right now. Not in a few years waiting for Timothy or Sandin (just a bonus when they are ready soon on elc to make an impact) .


4.) 02 Nov 2018 10:26:45
It just has the makings of a Taylor hall for adam Larrson disaster all over again I think. IMO it would be smarter for the leafs to sign nylander and stay the course and add a dman or two at the deadline when more of a selection could be available. Now that being said if you can trade nylander now for a stud dman then go for it. But if Brodin and pesce are the best of what's out there now I wouldn't even consider it. Not straight up anyway.


 

 

24 Oct 2018 22:10:14
By the sounds of it, Nylander should be signed in the next 48 hours (if the insiders are right) . I’ve read 2 reported solutions. First was 6 years between 6.5 and $7mill and the other was a bridge between $5.3 and $6mill. Wait and see I guess.

If he signs for $6.5, his cap hit for this year will show up as $7.5 range and 6.3 range for years 2-6. Nice little savings bonus for the teams cap situation going forward for losing him for 9 games.

Unbiased Jim

1.) 24 Oct 2018 23:39:00
Like when I hear the weather I shall believe it when it happens.


2.) 25 Oct 2018 06:09:01
I think everyone is sick and tired of the Nylander saga! IMO 6 mill is way too much for a 20 goal scorer.


3.) 25 Oct 2018 08:47:54
I’m sick of it too VanCity. I’m still holding out hope they trade him for a top 4 defenseman. However, he is a 60pt guy as well, not just 20 goals. If you’ve been reading the threads the past few days, there are many players of his caliber making more than that. Is he worth more, who knows? Matthews could make Kapanen a 60pt guy as well, which is what really good centers do.


4.) 25 Oct 2018 18:06:38
When he comes back to the NHL. I was wondering if you make him the 3rd line centre and move Kadri up to play left wing on Matthews line. At 6 to 7 mill you should be able to be the guy on a line and not run shotgun with a star.


5.) 25 Oct 2018 20:44:11
@vancity. They like Kadris game at centre a lot as a matchup/ shutdown guy. But your idea of balancing it out is what I thought too. I would leav kapanen on matthews RW and have Nylander on Kadris RW on the 3rd line.

Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
? - Kadri - Nylander

? Could be brown, Lindholm, Leivo, Johnsson or a colonization until you find the right fit. The others make up the 4th line with gauthier in the middle.

That way you spread out matthews/ jt/ marner and Nylander over 3 lines while keeping Kadri at centre.


6.) 25 Oct 2018 20:27:45
That’s true VanCity but he’s a good winger too. I actually think they put him on the 3rd line with Kadri. Kapanen has earned his right to stay on Matthews line. Nylander on the 3rd line should help Kadri get rolling and balance out the scoring. Nylander should have to prove he belongs where Kapanen is playing.


 

 

23 Oct 2018 14:48:03
Honest opinions from all fan bases wanted to avoid it being called a biased poll.

Rank these players in the order you would want them on your team if they all had identical Contracts.

Then do it again taking into consideration their current cap hit. They are all within 3 years of each other and all signed their second contracts between July 2016 and October 2017 (except Nylander of course)

Draisatl ($8.5)
Gaudreau ($6.75)
Ehlers ($6.0)
Pastrnak ($6.67)
Scheifele ($6.125)
Monahan ($6.375)
Mackinnon ($6.3)
Nylander (assume $6.75)

Unbiased Jim

1.) 23 Oct 2018 16:17:50
All these players wouldn't sign for those deals right now. So it's an unfair comparison. using mackinnon for your argument is completely flawed as he was coming off two straight horrible years when he signed it. I remember that deal being considered an over payment at the time. truth is draisitl is slightly high but he has proven much more then nylander.

All willie has proven so far is he can put up 60 points a year playing with matthews. Plus when you just compare the last two seasons Leon's numbers look considerably better this would be a better comparison cause neither player used anything before that for leverage in negotiations. i would say nylander at this point is at the bottom of the list for the players you mentioned. i could see him passing ehlers though. I'd have drais tied with pasta for 4th at this time.

1. Mack
2. scheifele
3. gaudreau
4. pasta/ draisitl
5. monahan
6. ehlers
7. nylander

Then of course because all the others were signed when the cap wasn't as high or after down years based on contract same order except draisitl would slip down to 5th or 6th but willie stays at the bottom even at 6.75 ( will probably get more)


2.) 23 Oct 2018 16:26:38
Like if your only going to base nylanders deal with what draisitl is making then I guess he deserves about 7 mil if you compare it to mackinnon he deserves about 3 mil I hope this helps lol.


3.) 23 Oct 2018 16:44:08
You should also post their season point totals the years leading up to their extensions for it to be a really fair informed poll.
You're reaching to hard man. It's sad.


4.) 23 Oct 2018 16:46:53
Man I can't wait for Mathews and Marnees big contracts.


5.) 23 Oct 2018 17:19:14
It's funny you try comparing wingers and centers contracts and only mention a select bunch of good ones that ill informed people will say omg Drais contract is rubbish without knowing the numbers in the years leading up to the signed extensions.

What about Ryan Johansen? $8M per year.
In the seasons leading up to his deal two summer sago his point totals were 58, 64, 30 (injured), 55, That got him $ per year. Then had 42 points in 65 games the year after signing said big deal. If you think Drais $8.5M deal after a 77 point season is terrible, What do you think
About Ryan Johanesen? Where's the post about that crazy bad contract. 🙄🙄
Talk about being biased when you try comparing wingers to centers, only mention the good deals, and don't even provide all the numbers of seasons point totals before signed extensions. Really pushing your biased point of view here man.


6.) 23 Oct 2018 19:26:40
Contracts tend to reflect the other contracts on the team. Drais said he wasn't worth less than half of mcdavid. He was right. you've now got Tavares. Is nylander 5 million less than him. No.
Pasternak took his deal because he wasn't worth more than Bergeron.


7.) 24 Oct 2018 12:41:42
1.Mack
2.Schifle
3. Guadreau
4.Pasta
5.Monahan
6.Nylander
7. Drais
8.Ehlers.


8.) 24 Oct 2018 22:01:34
I’m not reaching at anything. 8 players. Similar age. All got long term deals around the same time. Regardless of the situation that exact minute, we can now judge which ones are overpaid, which are underpaid and which are paid right. This all started trying to find Nylander's proper value, so I would think comparing 7 players in a similar situation, and now with the added data of a season or 2 after the fact, can help do that. If anyone wants to tell me that draisatl is paid properly or actually wprth more than the others on the list, they’re able to do that here.


9.) 24 Oct 2018 22:05:20
Ryan Johanssens is a 3rd contract. They were buying up 6 years of his UFA status from him, not 2 years like Draisatl and the rest of them. Talk about ill informed. That’s like you comparing Nylander to UFA evander Kane again. Not the same situation at all.

All the guys I brought up were RFAs coming off ELCs and all similar age. Obviously it costs more to buy more UFA seasons, that’s common sense. Oilers had all the leverage for the next 5-6 years with draisatl, like leafs do with Nylander and avalanche and jets did with mackinnon and scheifele. Nashville didn’t with johansen. How can you say that’s the same?! Lol.


10.) 24 Oct 2018 22:07:53
And @Habby, I agree with yours. And this isn’t to pump Nylanders tires. I would have him and ehlers at the bottom as well which is the point I made at the very beginning. It’s no leaf bias. He’s below all these players and that’s why I say he’s worth max what they are making 1-2 years later. It’s me saying draisatl isn’t worth 30% more than everyone else on that list that ruffled feathers and apparently is hating. I don’t think he’s 20% better than that list, let alone 30%.


11.) 24 Oct 2018 22:11:57
Yes alpaca that's true also percentage of the cap is huge and whether or not a player carries a line or if his point totals are inflated because of who he plays with.


12.) 24 Oct 2018 22:12:48
Alpaca, I get what you mean, but why did Krejci sign a year after and get more than Bergeron, chara and Rask then?


13.) 24 Oct 2018 22:14:14
@yupp

1) Johansen's is his 3rd contract, not his second like everyone I used. He wasn’t coming off an ELC and they bought up 6 years of his UFA eligibility, not 1-2 like all the guys we were talking about. That’s very different and far more expensive. I figured you would know that. When they have a year of control before he can walk a teams leverage is a lot different than 5-6 years of control. But don’t let a fact stop your argument lol

2) why was draisatl “worth far more at the time they signed”? He was .72 ppg after 3 seasons (191gp) at the time he signed. Mackinnon was at .70ppg after 218 games when he signed. They look at their whole body of work, not just the last 70-80 games when committing for 8 years. If they didn’t, marner has 80 pts in his last 60 games, that makes him on mcdavid pace and leafs will give him $13.5 because it’s a year later by your logic, right? Lol

So make your points, but consider that when you call someone ill informed, especially after saying that Evander Kane and William Nylander are similar players. regardless of the UFAvsRFA thing, saying they are similar shows how much you are talking without actually watching any of the players. They are polar opposites besides the fact they line up on the wing at a faceoff lol.


14.) 24 Oct 2018 23:16:39
I think Draisaitl should have gotten 7.5 and if Chiarelli was a good GM he would’ve used the guys you mentioned as comparables and signed him to a deal around 6.75. And if that was the case he’d be on an amazing deal like the others you mentioned. Most of those guys are worth way more.

Also how much did the cap go up between these contracts? That’s a big factor.

Draisaitl has two 70+ point seasons, 16 points in 13 playoff games and he has 8 points in 7 games so far this season. Needs more consistency but he deserves to get paid IMO.


15.) 25 Oct 2018 00:37:54
Yes ebs and the thought of a possible 1/2 punch down the middle comparable to pittsburgh was probably intriguing enough to chirelli at the time he didn't want to negotiate too hard and cause a situation like we are seeing with nylander.


16.) 25 Oct 2018 00:49:37
I think you are putting a little too much emphasis on RFA and UFA in these comparisons.
Would you think Mathews should get less than Tavares then? Tavares numbers way better than Mathews leading up to contracts but Toronto holds all the nagotiatong power with Mathews, so he should be signed to less than Tavares, right? Toronto has all the power there.
I'm at least trying to compare wingers to wingers and centers to centers.


17.) 25 Oct 2018 00:57:07
All I was getting at with E. Kane is that he is a top 6 winger, who's looked upon as teams secondary scoring and just signed recently. I would compare that to Nylander, a top 6 winger looked upon for secondary scoring on his team.
That's all. You're reading too much into that. They are similar importance to their team and close in position and output. And will be around the same price range.
And I've said numerous times, I wish we had Drai at about $7.75M. But its not the end of the world.
I'm more worried about giving Benning, Drake, Koslinen, Russell, Kassian all $500K (at least) too much.


18.) 25 Oct 2018 02:02:39
Negotiating is his job lol saying he ‘didn’t want to negotiate too hard’ to sign his players cheaper is not a flattering trait of a GM. Now they’re capped out and missed the playoffs and lacking depth after a cpl players. Having a player sit out to a few games to get him signed cheaper pays off over 6,7 and 8 years. Ask Calgary with gaudreau and Anaheim with Rakell. If they just said “I don’t want to negotiate, give Johnny $8 mill” or Rakell $5.5mill their team gets worse instead of $6.75 and $3.9 or whatever. But that’s probably wrong somehow too lol.


19.) 25 Oct 2018 02:24:24
Also draisatl was 11.33% of the cap on the day he signed. Mackinnon was 8.63%, so the cap going up was not the difference either.


20.) 25 Oct 2018 10:48:58
Jim you take things too serious man I'm not saying your wrong lol all the players you mentioned support your case are there players you could have picked that would fall on draisitils side? Yes but who really cares. I said he's over paid isn't that what your implying too? In his defence I will say this I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the best of him yet and to even produce as we'll as he did last year on a really bad team was still pretty good.

I'll ask you this and not to start a whole big thing but tavares in 4 years at 11 mil or draisitl in 4 years at 8.5 who would be the safer pick? And I know it's not fair to compare contracts due to ufa/ rfa that's not what I'm getting at. Just wondering if you could admit drasistil s contract still has the potential to look pretty good in a couple years.


21.) 25 Oct 2018 10:49:35
Also drasistil mcdavid = 21 mil which is right around what matthews and marner are going to be next year if not more so there is going to be about 6 years of which duo would you rather have starting pretty soon so it's no need for everyone to get too wrapped up in any of those players contracts yet lol.


22.) 25 Oct 2018 13:25:07
Ya but McKinnon didn't even have a 60 point season before his deal and Drai had a 77 point season. W. T. F. Man? McKinnon has a 93 point season AFTER signing his extension. What don't you understand about that?


23.) 25 Oct 2018 13:28:40
So if Driasitl was %11.3 coming off a 77 point season and McKinnon was %8.6 without even hitting a 60 point season.
Isn't what justified? Why would Drai accept the same
Deal as McKinnon when his numbers were better.


24.) 25 Oct 2018 15:11:43
@habby, I agree Draisaitls deal might look good down the road. There’s a chance for sure. I’m just saying that managers don’t look at only the last season when deciding what a player is. They look at a whole body of work. He had a decent season and a real good season leading up to that contract. Then they paid him too dollar based off the good season. But overall body of work, Leon and mackinnon were within two one hundredths of a point amd he got $2.2mill more lol the mackinnon one is a steal, the draisatl one might look good one day before it’s Done.

If that doesn’t speak to the job a manager has done to limit risk for his team, I don’t know what does. Again, I haven’t said a bad word about draisatl as a player. I like him. And I never blame a guy for getting paid, but it’s not a crime to criticize the manager that overpaid him. People hated Phaneuf in Toronto because he was overpaid. Blame the manager that gave it to him, not him for cashing the Cheques.

Also the Tavares vs draisatl one in 4 years is an interesting take for sure. I still keep catching myself thinking JT is older than he is. He just turned 28 this month but I always feel like he’s older because he’s been around so long it seems. So at 31-32 years old, I still expect him to be a very elite player and draisatl to be on that cusp. My opinion, but $2.5mill difference? We will have to see.


25.) 25 Oct 2018 15:12:55
@yupp, were his numbers better? Yes, By two one hundredths of a point lol they were better. And you keep saying mackinnon never hit 60 pts. He did, as an 18 year old.

Over 3 seasons, draisatl put up .02 points per game better and played with mcdavid for his only real good year. Mackinnon did it, all at a year younger, with Matt Duchene as the best player he had to play with.

See if dubas pays marner $13 mill because all they look at is his last 70 games playing with a star centre. If that’s what marner makes, you are right.


26.) 25 Oct 2018 16:31:22
Lol. ok seems like this might just go on and on in circles. I'm done with ya on this topic. Can't wait for Marner and Mathews deals. Good luck to the Leafs this year Jim Bud.


27.) 25 Oct 2018 20:41:45
They don't always look at the players full body of work. A lot of players have been paid big contracts over the years based almost completely on 1 season. I always felt what give draisitl an extra 1 million per on his deal was the fact he dominated for the oilers in the playoffs that year and out played mcdavid in the playoffs. I also think he was 8th in league scoring that season and looked to be getting better every game. so I'd be suprised if his agent didn't ask for 9 or 10 mil actually.


 

 

 

Unbiased Jim's rumour replies

 

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16 Nov 2018 18:12:10
I wouldn't be shocked if Matthews ends up in Arizona at some point in his career (if they still have a team), but I don’t think he wants to go now and be on a bad team. He wants to win. And obviously he makes them better, but if OEL+ goes the other way, that’s the next best piece leaving. If people don’t think leafs can compete till they get better D, what chance does Arizona have with that team by just adding Matthews and subtracting OEL and more? None.

Players always say the right thing and say they want to stay where they are and want to re-sign. But Matthews was on the spittin chiclets podcast with Ryan Whitney (side note, very entertaining, check it out) and said how he actually has stayed up at night thinking about what it would be like to win in Toronto because of the fan base and the generations that haven’t seen it and that that motivates him and wants nothing more than to win here. For a guy that isn’t overly revealing to the media in most cases and gives pretty stoic interviews, that feels pretty honest.

Considering he technically could be justified in asking more than mcdavid with almost 10 mill cap rose between their signings, I think he will leave a bit of money on the table and sign long term within the next few months. My guess is more than tavares, less than mcdavid. 8x$11.75-$12. Could be way off and he may ask $13.5 though.

Unbiased Jim

 

 

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16 Nov 2018 00:34:27
Just don’t think you ever win a trade when Matthews goes the other way. We waited too long for a player like him to trade him already. I can see the logic he’s trying to explain, I don’t see it ever happening and I wouldn’t want it to happen.

Unbiased Jim

 

 

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16 Nov 2018 00:27:56
I didn’t even think that’s what he meant lol makes more sense that way. I was looking at it like he thought the world of liljegren.

Unbiased Jim

 

 

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15 Nov 2018 23:35:48
Bruins wouldn’t give us Carlo for liljegren. 2 top 4 Dmen and a pick for one good prospect just isn’t in the realm of possibility.

Unbiased Jim

 

 

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15 Nov 2018 21:09:37
If there was a way cap wise, I’d do that trade. Playing with good players I think Tofoli would be a 60pt Guy also. Nylanders a lot more dynamic so I would t say they are wash by any means but he could replace a lot of his current production. And a late 1st, Johnsson who I see as a career 3rd liner and One of those 2 Dmen, preferably liljegren because doughty and zaitsev would be Locked in on RHD for a long time and Gardiner would have to walk, leaving Rielly, Dermott, Sandin for L side.

Unbiased Jim

 

 

 

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