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08 Oct 2016 01:00:23
So, Yak for a guy i've never heard of and probably never will hear of and a conditional third. I guess he didn't really have any value, eh EDM fans?

I don't mean that to come off as me hating (i guess i kind of am), but it was annoying reading how he apparently had some real value for essentially all of last year when it was apparent he had little if any. You were never going to get a fowler, or whomever else you want to insert there in place of him that was constantly proposed, for yak and another secondary piece.

That got quite annoying.

Shankar

1.) 08 Oct 2016 05:54:24
And it was equally annoying hearing every pure Oiler hater saying he isn't even worth a 5th and laughed at when anyone suggested he was worth a 3rd or 2nd.
I stayed as far away from expressing And commenting on Yaks value because I had zero clue. I just really wanted to move on from him and I really want him to have a fresh start somewhere else. Wish him nothing but the best.
But the bashing of him was super annoying, his return wasn't great and wasn't bad. Just the fact that both sides are moving on is the key part.


2.) 08 Oct 2016 06:44:29
Personally. as a Habs fan. I woulda been ok if Bergevin gave up a second rnd pick. its high risk and . high reward. .
Edmonton didn't get enough in my oponion. bet be gets 20 goals this year. and. ya not a lot for a first overall. m but worth more than Oilers got.


3.) 08 Oct 2016 10:46:21
Pretty sure the average Oil fan didn't think he was getting anything fancy. But a lot of people thought he couldn't get a 3rd at the deadline. I'm still one of those fans that think Chiarelli will regret it.


4.) 08 Oct 2016 17:36:46
There's always two extremes. I didn't care about the people saying he was worth a 7th because there were fewer of them and they, in all honestly, were closer to being right than the people saying they should trade Yak + a little something else for a top young defenceman,

However, he's now gone to Tankie country and I'm sure he'll soon be one of the top forwards in the league to go along with Fabbri, berglund, and Stastny. So, maybe we aren't out of the woods just yet regarding this being 'over. '


5.) 08 Oct 2016 19:28:09
There was a few guys hoping for a Fowler and what not but I thought that was crazy. I honestly thought a good AHL D (Montour, Murphy, Pokka) was do able but obviously it didn't happen. Hopefully a 2nd though. Doesn't seem too bad.


6.) 08 Oct 2016 21:29:43
ShankI fyi robby fabbrI had a great rookie season. As for yakapov I'm not holding my breathe. He is probably another magnus pajarvi.


7.) 08 Oct 2016 23:09:46
until about december. then you'll be singing his praises and saying how STL stole this 1st oa beast and saying how stupid EDM was for giving him away.


 

 

23 Jul 2015 18:02:58
so, these random jvr "rumours" coming out of nowhere are getting increasingly worse. jvr has more value than kessel and the leafs don't want to move him, because why would they? so, if they do end up trading him, the return has to be quite a bit more than they got for kessel.

kessel trade: 1st rounder (pretty easy to assume PIT will make the playoffs one of the next 2 years), high end, but not elite prospect (kapanen). mid level prospect (harrington).

now, a jvr deal MUST beat that, let's say 1st. 2nd, and 2 high end prospects. no more of this cap dump + mid level prospect + mid level prospect + 2nd rounder for jvr, please.

Shankar

1.) 23 Jul 2015 19:23:31
Definetly agree shank, JVR is younger and is a steal at his cap. To all those hates who say he isn't a steal, open your eyes, he is. He did well with and without kessel, and will do it again if he isn't traded


2.) 23 Jul 2015 21:27:16
I don't this JVR has a no-trade clause. JVR might want out of Toronto and if so, Toronto can't wait 2 years for a legit deal.


3.) 23 Jul 2015 22:56:25
agree with OP, also the fact that the leafs were hand cuffed trading kessel with his list of teams with no cap space. the leafs could have gotten a better deal from another team with more to offer than pitts did


4.) 23 Jul 2015 23:35:59
think*


5.) 24 Jul 2015 00:56:36
jvr has no ntc, and if he wants out he sure hasn't voiced it publically. and yes, they can wait however long they want for a legit deal, the logic that anyone HAS to trade someone is totally flawed its beyond belief. moreover, give me a good reason to tradejvr? he's young, skilled, signed for 3or 4 more years, and comes with a very cap-friendly salary.


6.) 24 Jul 2015 01:54:31
To say he is way more valuable than Kessel (especially once salery was retained) is a stretch. Maybe equal to, but I get your point. Would be stupid to move him, these offers for him lately are just brutal. He is a great young big winger with a great cap hit.


7.) 24 Jul 2015 07:44:10
1st, 2nd and 2 high end prospects? Seriously? You guys know JVR is by far my fav leaf, but that's a vast, vast overpayment. After all, JVR is a solid top 6 guy, not more not less. While he isn't as bad as Kessel in that regard, he isn't exactly known for his two-way game. He can score and he can check/hit. He is a good scorer, but not an elite scorer.

Depending on how you define high-end prospect, I'd even argue 1 high end prospect alone is worth more than JVR. (of course not if that prospect is a Kapanen-type-of-guy, but my definition of a high end prospect is more in the Drouin/Forsberg/Reinhart corner). Same goes for the first round pick. If it's a good draft, JVR fetches a pick between between 10 and the end of the lottery, not more not less.

I'd say a mid 1st in a normal draft and a good prospect and maybe another mid/late pick is what his value is.


8.) 24 Jul 2015 13:22:44
^ really depends on where he goes. Everyone forgets a high end prospect from Chicago is not the same as a high end prospect from Edmonton. Same with the picks.

I could see him fetching a top end return (some high picks and prospects), but it's likely coming from a playoff team, ergo the value of those assets is significantly different than if he was traded to Buffalo.


9.) 24 Jul 2015 17:53:16
when I say high-end, I mean one of the better, not necassarily the best, prospects on a team. its a very fluid definition because teams don't have equal farm systems, I know. for an example, here's my JVR trade idea to a specific team that may be interested in him, let's say NAS:

1st 2016, 2nd 2016 or 2017, robby fabbri, austin watson.

the 2 picks will be late in their respective rounds, fabbry is a rather good prospect, whie watson has become significantly less promising, eventhough he was a 1st rounder a few years back.

and that would be for jvr, a low pick, and a contract to even that number out, since it seems to be something gm's liek to do if posssible.


10.) 24 Jul 2015 18:28:30
lol, of course I mean fiala* not fabbri, mixed them up.


 

 

02 Mar 2015 07:20:24
LOL connolly for a pair of 2nds, guess he isn't very highly valued at all, like most on here though. that top 30 or wtv in goals per 60 mins played stat that I kept hearing at nauseam didn't seem to make him worth much at all.

not to mention giving up a 1st, 3rd, and gudas (who imo has similar value alone compared to coburn) for coburn is hilarious. biggest overpayment that I've seen in while. great steal, hextall, great steal.

Shankar

1.) Yes connoly is a bust


2.) I was going to comment I thought that was a smaller return than people had suggested it could be.

Though 2-2nds isn't exactly "bad" depending on how Boston does


3.) I think that was a terrible deal by the lightning. Gudas, a 1st & 3rd for a 30 year old average d man. They could have had Polak for Gudas alone. Polak was the 1st name that I could think of, but there had to have been better options for cheaper. Personally, I hope the leafs keep Polak.


4.) 02 Mar 2015 16:06:22
1. Coburn deal was very bad, agree there.
but 2. Connolly deal rather proofs my and jbs' point. 2 2nds for a "total bust". Not that bad. Seeing how the Bruins are doing could both be top 40-45 picks.


5.) 02 Mar 2015 18:20:55
1st round picks are overrated when they belong to a playoff team. It wasn't overpayment by TB.

the first will probably be 25-30 (a player who may never even make the NHL)

the prospect is B level

The 3rd is nothing.

plus Coburn has another year left. The east is wide open this year and TB has a good shot. Both good trades by TB


6.) 04 Mar 2015 04:10:27
While I agree they gave up too much, Leafs17 you can't compare Coburn to Polak, Coburn takes over a top 4, Polak wouldn't have made the team better, maybe get bottom pair minutes on this team. Shank, quite frankly most the things you post on here are pretty stupid and this is no exception. I will agree the Connolly return wasn't great but it was far from terrible and if he gets minutes in Boston he will score 20 goals, hell he has 12 or 13 when he was playing on the fourth line. Gudas is a bottom pair Dman nothing more, and has reached the age he isn't going to develop much more. He was a fan favourite but that made him overrated. He throws some big hits but he really was not that reliable defensively and got burned a lot. Coburn is a clear upgrade on him in almost all aspects of the game. Again, Coburn was an overpay and not the Dman I wanted, but he is a legit top 4 dman and frankly Gudas isn't and may very well never be. Just because he played sparingly in the top 4 doesn't mean he is actually a top 4 dman


7.) 05 Mar 2015 10:45:51
Tbay drafted Connolly 6th overall in 2010.
Trading him for two 2nds is bad, exactly bad.
I won't call him a bust, just a disappointment


 

 

15 Feb 2015 17:19:27
well well well, where's all the guys saying that franson would be lucky to fetch a 2nd?

Shankar

1.) LOL! Are you joking?! The 1st round pick the leafs got is literally one pick from the 2nd round at the moment. You're not exactly in a position to gloat.


2.) Yeah but Chirp, it's all about draft poaition. Franson was always going to get traded to a playoff team. So the 2nd that people said Franson was worth would have been pick 44-59. So even if Nashville wins the cup, Toronto still gains 14 spots or better by getting that pick for him.

It makes little sense to try and undermine the fact that he was traded for a 1st. Toronto still did that much better than a lot of people have them credit for.


3.) Also Nashville got Mike Santorelli. While Toronto acquired Olli Jokinen, which by the looks of things this will be his last year in the NHL, and Brendan Leipsic. Who might actually be a decent NHLer.


4.) 15 Feb 2015 22:05:46
chirp you're literally hilarious. the position of the pick means nothign now, since the playoffs mainly determine picks 15-30 (i really hope you know that, but I wouldn't be surprised if you didnt) either way, a 1st for a #3-4 dman that's a pending ufa is somethign i'm quite happy with.


5.) I'm sure you are happy with it. Leafs fans have a tendency to never admit fault in trades, always talking themselves into thinking that what they got is the best ever. The delusion lives on.


6.) Shankar if I'm not mistaken you were one of the people claiming they would get more than a late first for Franson. It's funny how the fans saying Franson would get a first and a prospect and Santorelli at least a second are now saying this was such a great deal. They got a first that likely won't be top 20, a decent prospect, and literally nothing in Jokinen. I think it's a good deal for Toronto but it's much less than fans were claiming they were going to get


7.) Shanklet changing his tune? Shocker.


8.) 16 Feb 2015 06:21:09
ive never said franson would get more than a late 1st, I've said n many occasions that he's worth more than a 2nd which peopel were saying that he was worth, whichh is obviously not the case.

also, santorelli pretty much go the equivalent of a late 2nd in that prospect, so no, i'm not changing my tune.


 

 

07 Jan 2015 07:30:23
since i'm bored, and since there seems to be lots of leaf chatter with the firing of carlyle, here's my view on each player on the roster now, in regards to tradeability.

lets start off with the easy forwards.

kessel - obviously not being moved

jvr - obviously not being moved

bozak - almost certainly not being moved

ashton - could be moved rather easily asuming someone wants him, lots of guys like him around and i'd rather take a chance on a late pick since 4th liners aren't hard to find.

booth - same deal as ashton

clarkson - literally cannot trade due to the amount of money he's owed

holland - could be traded, likely only as part of a package for an ugrade though as he has been quite good, although redundant to some degree with kadri on the team as well.

kadri - same as holland, if there was a deal in place i'd rather it be holland th moves, but if its something management likes I can't see them saying no if the other team really wants kadri and will not make the deal if it was holland.

komarov - really like him, hope he isn't traded and can't really see the upside in doing so.

lupul - probably the most likely to be traded, at the same time he doesn't carry much vale, probably just a pick or two to free up cap space for other signings.

panik - really like him as well and don't really see the upside in trading him as he doesn't have huge value, but there is potential there. if lupul is traded i'd like to see him move into the top 6, at least as a trial.

santorelli - has been very good this year, but far from untouchale since he's only on a 1 year contract and might not want to come back/toronto doesn't have the cap room to bring him back. could likely fetch a decent pick + decent prospect.

winnick - quality depth guy that I do like in a bottom 6 role, however, like santorelli is far from untouchable due to his one year contract and number of other guys that can lpay the same role as him. could get a decent pick or prospect.

franson - toronto has to figure out what he wants and if they can/are willing to give it to him. he's been good for most of this year, but was not last year. I could see him being part of a larger deal to bring back a quality defender to toronto if he is traded.

gardiner - personally, fed up with him, but he does have the skillset to be an above average player, tahts the most frustrating part I guess. could see him moved as part of a package for an older and more defensively sound defenseman.

holzer - in his limited time has been rather good, exceeded my expectations anyways. another one of thise guys I don't see the upside in trading since he has pretty much no value but does seem to have a bit of potential and could become a solid 3rd pair guy.

phaneuf - a lot of peple hate him, but he's the #1 guy on this team and I can't see him being traded unless they're going for some huge change which I can't see happening any time soon.

polak - could go if the rigt offer was presented I assume, but no need to actively shop him at all.

rielly - not moving, that's the end of that one

robidas - would like to see him go, but no one will take him. looking liek a pretty horrible signing and there's no way he's going to bounce back in his age 39 or 40 seasons, might even end up being a buyout cadidate by the end of this year.

bernier - future in net for the leafs, won't be traded and hopefully will be signed long term this summer.

reimer - the saga continues, should end eventually, but likely not until the summer when management will have an extended period to find a serviceable backup.

Thats the end of my esay lol.

Shankar

1.) Ya agree with everything.

Phaneuf takes a lot of heat but he's actually the only good defenceman on this team. What the leafs really needed to do was get him a partner last offseason.

Gardiner is a stellar skater but doesn't have it between the ears, 0 hockey IQ in my opinion.

Bozak, Garginer, kadri, lupul, reamer are all immediately tradeable,

Kessel, Phaneuf, Nylander are if your talking about trading a star for a star.

Reilly, bernier, JVR are all guys Toronto needs to sign longterm and build around.

It will be in interesting 6 months in Toronto


 

 

 

Shankar's rumour replies

 

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05 Aug 2017 19:52:16
Just checked and I got it, thanks. It's just an email I use for stuff like this. Not one I check frequently at all.

And yeah, I meant goldennights. I always thought they were the same person, but maybe I'm wrong.

Shankar

 

 

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05 Aug 2017 19:03:25
Isn't goldenshowers actually montrealfinest, who I assume is part of that 9? If not, good job tricking me.

Also, am I part of that nine or do I need to reapply after my failure to make the playoffs last season?

Shankar

 

 

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05 Aug 2017 08:32:30
Yes, the salary structure is thrown out of whack because the best player in the league got the most money. Great bit of insight there.

Shankar

 

 

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04 Aug 2017 05:25:28
I don't think they ever spent that much, but I'm too lazy to go check. I always thought they were at a max of around 50-60 mil before the cap, with DET and NYR being the two that spent ridiculously, but I could be very wrong.

Shankar

 

 

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03 Aug 2017 23:04:42
And what deal you propose that would even remotely make sense? You're not tricking someone into taking Horton or Lupul because they might have a bounce back year or something, and they clearly value picks and prospects more then the amount of money that those two are making. Believe me when I say that, with corporate ownership, they've thought this through in much more depth than you or I should bother to.

Shankar

 

 

 

Shankar's talk replies

 

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01 Mar 2015 20:38:40
they aren't reallly comparable. sharp would take much more.

for loui maybe a 2nd + decent prospect + lower end roster player as cap dump for loui and a low end rospect/pick

sharp would definately be a 1st + god prospect/roster player.

Shankar

 

 

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28 Feb 2015 15:08:50
also, many have made mention to kessel's apparent "lack of production" this season; yet he has only 1 fewer point than spezza this year. so yea, all in all, its a pretty far off comparison.

relatively similiar playing styles, but extremely different situations.

Shankar

 

 

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28 Feb 2015 15:05:32
kessel compared to spezza:

injury history: kessel has almost a 500 game iron man streak, spezza has missed significant time with significant injuries and surgeries

age: kessel 27, spezza 31. one entering prime, the other exiting it.

contract: right now they make essentially the same, but spezza was a pending ufa thus lowering his value

offensive skillset: spezza is a centre which makes him slightly more valuable, but kessel has outproduced him over recent years negating that.

defense: they're both equally useless.

so 5 categories and spezza does not seem to have the edge in any, and kessel has the ege in 3. not to mention spezza requested a trade while kessel has made no such request, at least publically.

Shankar

 

 

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27 Feb 2015 20:39:19
nylander might come up for 5 or so games at the end o the year, but that's about it.

Shankar

 

 

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27 Feb 2015 18:52:13
either woul likley not accept anythng under 3.5 mil, and that's right around where a 1st round pick is included. so no, that wouldn't be cool.

Shankar