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22 Apr 2021 22:34:48
Ott : Ryan Dzingle, 2021 1st, Logan Brown, Johnny Thychonic

Cal : Matthew Tkachuk



Ott : Colin White, Erik Brannstrom, a 2023 1st (Top 10 protected), a 2024 1st, Chris Teirney

Buf : Jack Eichel


M. Tkachuk Eichel Batherson
B. Tkachuk Norris Stutzle
Formenton Pinto Dadonov
Jarventie Anisimov C. Brown

Sanderson Docker
Chabot Thompson
Klevin Zub

Gustafson
Soogard
Dacoord
Hogberg

Seattle takes Murray

Sens_Able

1.) 23 Apr 2021 11:08:58
I don't think you need to mess with what will be success in a few years. Hard pass on Matt Tkachuck and Eichel. especially Eichel.


2.) 23 Apr 2021 11:47:26
Not getting Tkachuk for that.


3.) 23 Apr 2021 12:00:37
The cost of both Tkachuk and Eichel will be too high that it wouldn’t be worth Ottawa going for. I think we just got to be patient, they’re starting to put things together now so I think we could be a playoff team as soon as next year.


4.) 23 Apr 2021 14:43:01
Add Sturtzel and Buffalo still declines.


5.) 23 Apr 2021 15:05:35
Why wouldn't we get Tkachuk for that? Despite what fans think of Brown, he is still considered a high end prospect throughout the league, Dzingle is a quality middle 6 winger, and that pick is most likely a lottery pick this year who will be as good as or better than Tkachuk in 5 years time. In what world is that not enough for Tkachuk? If anything it's too much.


6.) 23 Apr 2021 15:54:14
Ryan Dizingel=Nothing, a 1st from a weak draft, Logan Brown can barely crack the Sens roster he sucks and that prospect sucks even more.


7.) 23 Apr 2021 16:19:32
Matthew isn't for sale and even if he was that package isn't even close to what it'd take to get him.

How about we trade you you Derek Ryan, Buddy Robinson, some unknown plug and a 1st for Brady?


8.) 24 Apr 2021 01:07:03
Lets look at it this way:

Brady Tkachuk for Derek Ryan, Glenn Gawdin and a 1st and two 2nds? Probably not right? Ryans been on waivers, but Dzingels value compared to Ryan is probably like a 4th or so better. Not too much. Gawdin should be about equal to Logan Brown, both decent enough prospects, probably low end 3rd liners. The 1sts balance out, Calgarys doing just as poorly as Ottawa is, and two seconds for Tuchonik is probably even an overpayment. If you wouldn’t take that for Brady, why would CGY take your offer for Matthew?


9.) 24 Apr 2021 17:35:50
Ok topshelfslappers let me put it this way then as your thoughts on value are massively skewed. Those 2 trades are nowhere near the same thing and Calgary is doing much better than Ottawa making their pick a lot worst last I looked. Calgary is in 22nd in the league right now which is around pick 9 or 10 while Ottawa is in 28th right now which is a top 4 to 5 pick. That's a huge difference in values.

L.Brown is still a top end prospect expected to be a top 6 center. He just hasn't been given the opportunity in ottawa as that goofball Dorian expexts him to be super flashy, which ain't his style, I've personally liked what I have seen of him, they just won't give him the chance that a team like Calgary probably would. Now I'll admit I don't follow Gawdin enough to know much about him but I bet he ain't top 6 material like Brown is?

And Dzingle has played much better since back in Ottawa and some would say he's back to his form he he'd when he was there before. And like you said Ryan was on waivers while Dzingle the last time Ottawa traded him away got them two 2nd round picks plus a very capable Anthony Duclair. So pretty sure Dzingle is A LOT more valuable that Ryan.

Then you take in to account that a lot of people believe Brady is BETTER and MORE VALUABLE to his team than Matthew is. Matthew is a great flashy instigator who can put up numbers which is great and all but Brady is a no nonsense in your face battler who stands up for team mates and STILL matches Matthews numbers all be it in a less flashy way.

In conclusion Brady as well as the pieces I mentioned from Ottawa are ALL more valuable than the Calgary counter parts mentioned above. And two 2nds don't cover the difference of the 1sts mentioned. Possibly the difference of Dzingle Ryan and Tkachuk value over his Brother but that's hardly enough.


10.) 24 Apr 2021 17:45:03
Nylander

Dzingle is playing as good or better now than he did with Ottawa before when he netted them a return of two 2nds and Duclair who is a pretty good hockey player. That's NOT nothing! And Logan Brown absolutely CAN crack the roster he's just NOT being given the chance and Dorian expects flash which is NOT his style. Go look at the nhl prospect rankings, like him or not I don't care, he's STILL listed as a TOP 65 prospects league wide as of mid January this year which clearly counts for something. You may not like him but experts clearly do.


11.) 24 Apr 2021 17:54:27
MoxNix

Dude that comment is pathetic. That offer is NOWHERE near as good value wise as the one for Matthew and you know it. I wouldn't trade Brady for fair value right now let alone that garbage. But saying the offer I made for Matthew isn't close is just dumb. It's more than close its an overpayment that a team like Ottawa has the resources to make. A top 65 prospect league wide and a top 5 pick in this years draft alone is more than enough let alone adding a middle 6 speedy scoring winger who was able to fetch a return of Duclair and two 2nds as recently as 2 years ago to the mix.

And FYI Brady is also worth more than Matthew is hands down while your offer is a joke compared to mine.


12.) 24 Apr 2021 18:08:42
Gotta love Mr. Hockey Knowledge, Nylander and how ill-informed he is on talent.
Jack Eichel is about to get neck surgery and who knows if he will ever be 100%, but hey, the great Nylander says adding Stutzle to this trade still isn't enough.
This guy must think Eichel is the best in the league, highly over-rating this player.
FIdiot.


13.) 24 Apr 2021 21:15:02
Renidrag

I totally missed that one lol two 1sts from a rebuilding team, top 10 protected or not, plus 2 over qualified 3rd line centers, and a future top 2 or 3 dman is so far off you need to add a top 3 pick who's a top 6 forward in year 1 on top of all that? Lmfao give your head a feel Nylander 😆 clearly you lost a few brain cells over the course of your life 😆


14.) 25 Apr 2021 05:35:12
The difference between Ryan Dzingel and Derek Ryan is negligable. Dzingel is a little bigger and 5 years younger. They're both UFAs making almost the same money (Dzingel makes 250k more) .

You can't compare what a player was traded for in a pre c.v. trade to what players fetch now with the flat cap.

Logan Brown is not top 6 material. He's a huge 6'6" 4th line plug, very much like Buddy Robinson only younger. Again the difference is negligable.

Jonny Tychonick is a nobody who will probably never play in the NHL.

The 1st round picks are pretty much a wash. The way both teams are playing they're both going to be high picks and it's quite possible Ottawa could wind up ahead of Calgary yet. Besides that, it's a very poor draft this year with nobody who really stands out above the rest and the panicdemic made it impossible to do any meaningful scouting.

As for Brady vs Matthew, they're both elite young players. Which one is better won't be decided for a long time yet.


15.) 25 Apr 2021 05:46:39
Lol you’re the two most biased sens fans out there Eichel is better then Daniel Alferdssen ever was he’s a top 10 player in the game and as a leafs fan I know he’s on par with Mathews. He’s a star on a awful hockey team. He’s going to fully recover from his injury and literally every team in the NHL would out bid that offer.

Sturtzel, Brannstrom and 1st 2021 top 3 protected is what it’d take for Eichel.

Colin White also has negative value with that contract.


16.) 26 Apr 2021 22:33:05
Nylander you are on some great drugs. Eichel might be near or at most on Alfie level but in NO way is he above a prime Alfie, get real. The got ain't even a point a game player in his career for one, nor has he EVER led his team to even a single playoff game in 5 years despite having loads of talent surrounding him in that period from Orielly to Kane, to Reinhardt Dahlin Risto and Hall among others. Top that off with the injuries in that time and the known fact that he's frustrated, wants out, and has a no trade clause kicking in this offseason and it's pretty clear how far off your evaluation truly is.

White, Brown, a 2023 top 10 protected 1st, and Branstrom would be more than enough to get the trade done. Adding Stutzle or Sanderson is just a dreamers request. Tell your bad proposals to someone else dumb enough to believe they carry merit.

And Colin White definitely does NOT have negative value what so ever, keep dreaming fan boy


17.) 26 Apr 2021 22:43:56
Moxnix

what are you talking about? Brady is undoubtedly better than Matthew hands down.

Top 5 is still top 5 weak draft or not and still carries tons of value.

Tychonic will be a bottom 4 dman at worst

And normally you're right about past trade values however when that past trade was only within the last 3 years, in this case 2, and the player himself has been playing as good or better than he did at the time of that trade like Dzingle has been then he'll yeah you can compare it to current value to establish what he's worth, you'd be dumb not to.

As for Brown, as of this past January 2021 he is litterally STILL listed as the 62nd BEST NHL prospect league wide. In that write up it is stated that those around the league STILL view his as a future top 6 possible top 3 center whether you like him or not, the league clearly does still think pretty highly of the kid. Here's the link if you still have the urge to argue common sense.

Top 100 Prospects


 

 

16 Mar 2021 01:19:10
Ott : Abramov, Tychonic, 2021 3rd

Buf : Peterka

And...

Ott : Thompson, 2021 4th

Chi : Reichel

Ottawa unites the German trio since they like the chemistry thing.

They already have the Tkachuk, Norris, L.Brown connections, the North Dakota connections, as well as the team Canada Batherson, Formenton connection. Why not add the German connection to boot?

Sens_Able

1.) 16 Mar 2021 11:45:20
As a sens fan I would love to see both these trades happen, but I think we would have to give up a bit more value in each trade.


2.) 16 Mar 2021 23:39:43
Ok so change the 3rd in Peterka deal to a 4th and add Sokolov. The Russian Boys together should cover Peterka value up to around 85%, while Tychonic and the 4th make up the difference.

And change the 4th in Reichel deal to a 3rd Thompson was a mid 1st himself and should still carry that value after only a year or 2 and therefore him alone should carry about 90% of Reichel value or more. Adding the 3rd should cover the difference.

It's not like either team is moving any old diminished peices here. Nor is either team moving a bonified super stud. And every player peice is a top 3 rounds pick over the last 3 to 4 years max, meaning they all still carry projection value.


 

 

08 Mar 2021 19:45:46
San Jose has very few prospects but they do have at least 1 prospect that most teams covet in Ryan Merkley so here's a thought I know will bring out the disapprovers lol c'mon Topshelf let's here your no back up logic here lol.

SJS : Merkley

OTT : Thompson, Abramov, Chlapic, Jarventie, and a 2021 3rd

Yes Sharks lose the best prospect in the deal in Merkley but they also fill out a few spots at the top of the farm like they did claiming Balcers. Thompson can still be a top 4 dman and plays a similar style to burns who can help him along. Jarventie is a high risk high reward type player who has shown brilliance so far and looks like he's on the way to success. Chlapic can already slip into a 3rd or 4th line role in nhl, Abramov is possibly even ready to go now in a middle 6 role he's just in a crazy competitive market right now in Ottawa with all the young talent in similar position. Add the 3rd and it's not a bad deal for either side as Ottawa gets a solid puck mover for the transition game and San jose turns 1 B+ prospect into 3 B prospects, 1 B- prospect, and a pick in first 3 rounds of the draft.

Sens_Able

1.) 08 Mar 2021 20:30:30
As a Sens fan, I don’t mind it. It’s quite a bit to give up for a minor upgrade, but if there sold on Merkley (maybe bcuz he could be ready this year) then they pull the trigger. Personally I’d want to keep Abramov tho. SJ likely does it as it replenishes their prospect pool- less of a sure thing in Thomson then Merkley, but lots of potential in the pick and other prospects.


2.) 08 Mar 2021 20:37:42
Markley is not worth that for the Sens.


3.) 08 Mar 2021 21:58:13
Just a note, Chlapik had his contract terminated by OTT, so he's just gone.

As for the trade, I'd say it's pretty close. It's basically Thomson and Abramov for Merkley, and considering Merkley hasn't been that fantastic, it's pretty even straight across, although Merkley may have more 'draft pedigree' or whatnot.


4.) 09 Mar 2021 04:30:49
I didn't realize Chlapic was gone already lol but don't sleep on Jarventie, he's a solid b prospect in his own right.

Merkley with the right team like Ottawa for instance, could break out huge. He and Sanderson together for instance would be a solid pair


 

 

01 Mar 2021 20:26:45
This one is a tad far fetched for both sides to be honest but with all the heat Eichel and Dahlin keep getting in Buffalo it could be possible.

BUF : Eichel, Dahlin, and Okposo/Skinner (BAD contract)

OTT : Chabot, Dadonov, Thompson, White, Zaitsev, L.Brown, Abramov, Formenton, 2021 2nd

Breakdown is basically Chabot Abramov and a 2nd for Dahlin as their Chabot value alone should put him pretty close to dahlins. And the rest of the package as is.

Dadonov and Zaitsev are both top 6 and 4 guys as is White essentially with the latter 2 having great bounce back years so far.

While Thompson and Brown are considered solid high end prospects with the latter being a project sure but with a change of scenery I believe he could flourish as he has shown signs of it just not getting the opportunities in Ottawa.

I am NOT including a 1st because I don't believe it's really needed with the surplus of prospects ottawa has and I have already included plus the taking back of 1 of 2 terrible contracts.

I also because of that surplus do not believe this goes against the rebuild either as it is essentially swapping defensive styles and the kids they want to build around aren't moving nor are they making a bad move if a likely lottery pick. Chabot can be replaced in this years draft as well.

Let's face it, most of ottawas prospects would likely be top 2 or 3 on any other team. Look at Balcers as a prime example back in San Jose

Sure Eichel probable won't win anything this year after this but come next year the team will likely be ready to compete thus speeding up the rebuild.

Stutzle Eichel Batherson
Tkachuk Norris C.Brown

Dahlin Branstrom
Sanderson Docker

Add a defense like Clarke in the draft.

Sens_Able

1.) 01 Mar 2021 21:46:40
Does ottawa have a 2021 or 2022 2nd? Or do they have derek stepan and matt Murray?


2.) 01 Mar 2021 23:09:26
And that’s how you destroy a rebuilding team..


3.) 02 Mar 2021 01:11:23
Chabot and a bucket of crap for the most hyped dman in NHL history and a 23 year old franchise centre. That’s laughable.


4.) 02 Mar 2021 01:42:55
NotACassual not with a team like Ottawa. They still have Tkachuk Batherson Norris Stutzle Pinto Grieg Jarventie C.Brown Sokolov Docker Sanderson Branstrom and Zub

They also still would have their possible lottery 1sts.

And both Eichel and Dahlin are young enough to fit the rebuild as well, while the bad contract no matter which one is still a veteran who can replace Dadonov leadership.


5.) 02 Mar 2021 01:45:23
Face-lift didn't they have 3 in 2021? And the Matt Murray deal was for the 2020 2nd not 2021 2nd


6.) 02 Mar 2021 03:43:12
Nylander really dude? Sure Dahlin is better Defensively than Chabot but Chabot has been blowing him out of the water offensively so far. Obviously there is a little more value in dahlin due to his hype but Abramov and the 2nd aren't exactly worth nothing. Abramov on most teams and like a lot of sens prospects would be an instant top 3 or 5 at worst prospect.

As for the Eichel part, clearly Eichel is a huge asset. But calling the rest of the trade from ottawas part a bucket of crap? I think you need to find a new sport to watch pal. Dadonov is a perenial 50 plus point guy who actually has played a playoff game or a few lol, white is a former calder cup consideration who's having a major bounce bad year after only 1 bad year, Zaitsev is actually back to top 4 form, Formenton is the FASTEST prospect in hockey with loads of potential to be even better than Batherson who just so happens to be the Sens current leading scorer, Brown with a change of scenery could possibly reach original expectations and become a top 3 or 6 center, and Thompson will most likely be a top 4 dman at worst and has drawn Brent Burns comparisons in how he plays.

How is any of that a bucket of crap in any way? Or are you just a sad leafs fan who's mad that Ottawa actually has more than enough to make something big like this happen? We can give you Stepan or Anisimov for a bag of pucks if you want? Lol


7.) 02 Mar 2021 04:34:49
@sens_able I like the thought process but I don’t think Sens should do it. I’d take Chabot over Dahlin right now honestly


8.) 02 Mar 2021 13:36:45
Bobby Orr, Denis Potvin, Paul Coffey, Lindstrom, Hedman, etc no one, literally no one was ever more hyped then Rasmus Dahlin going into a draft Dman take longer to develop but in 3 years time there is no question in my mind that Dahlin will be the best dman in the nhl.

If I’m the Sabres and I was offered Mathews for Dahlin I’d laugh and decline. Dahlin will be that good but dman take more time to develop. He’s 20 years old and on a awful team. Chabots like what? 3-4 years older? That’s a lot of development.


9.) 02 Mar 2021 15:41:53
Getting two franchise players is bad for a rebuild? Just keep Dahlin and Chabot out of the trade. The rest in comparison to Eichel is a bucket of crap. Who cares if Zaitsev is back to original form and Brown could maybe be a top 6 center, they don’t have value worth near as much as Eichel. got to give up one top piece then add from there. That means one of Tkachuk, Chabot, Stutzle, Sanderson.


10.) 02 Mar 2021 15:51:14
@ebsolutely I don’t think it would be smart to rush their rebuild. They aren’t ready to contend yet


11.) 02 Mar 2021 19:03:09
I'm not sure why Buffalo does this. The reasoning for chabot+ for dahlin can be made, but the add would be lots as dahlin is younger, more potential upside, and they drafted him.

This trade makes Buffalo older, while making them lose dahlin and eichel. A reasonable package to me, is Tkachuk, chabot, Norris and this year's 1st, no protection.


12.) 02 Mar 2021 20:09:36
If Eichel gets traded its for quality. The argument is to be made for DahlinChabot, but even at the basis that Chabot=Dahlin, which is most reasonable, Eichel isn't getting traded for quantity.

Eichel+Okposo gets one of Stutzle/ Tkachuk + Zaitsev/ White + Norris/ Batherson + some pick, which is a trade neither team should be really willing to do.


13.) 03 Mar 2021 12:50:01
You guys are crazy if you actually believe that. Eichel is NOT Gretzky guys. He's just NOT.

Erik Karlsson had one year left and was regarded as the number 3 player in hockey in his prime at the time of his trade and didn't even get a quarter of what you are suggesting Eichel should get, Stutzle Batherson and an unprotected lottery 1st? Don't make me laugh.

The asking price I believe is a top player, a top prospect, and a 1st (not lottery). You get that here with Dadonov or Zaitsev let alone both, Formenton or Thompson let alone both, and white plus the 2nd (which I could say if sens make playoffs this year becomes a 1st otherwise stays a 2nd). Not sure what the problem is?


14.) 03 Mar 2021 13:29:55
Eichel should get 3x as much as what Karlsson got. He plays a more valuable position, younger and not a pending UFA. Pending UFAs carrry little value.


15.) 03 Mar 2021 14:50:59
‘The asking price is a top prospect, top player and a 1st’

**Names Nikita Zaitsev, Alex Formenton and a 2nd as the equivalent pieces**.


16.) 03 Mar 2021 15:48:31
Topshelf yes a top prospect batherson is our leading scorer and top 6 guy right now, Formenton is expected to be better than he is plus is the FASTEST prospect in hockey at this point, that easily makes him a top prospect. And Thompson also qualifies here as he is projected to be a top 4 nhl dman at worst, was drafted round 1 less than 2 years ago so still carries 1st value, and has been compared stylistically to Brent Burns who I'm pretty sure is good at hockey? 😆

Dadonov easily qualifies as one of the teams BEST players and has been a perenial 50 to 60 point guy for a number of years now plus is signed for roughly the same timetable as Eichel. And Zaitsev, love him or hate him, is still a top 4 dman and currently the sens 2nd best on main roster in a lot of peoples eyes plus like Dadonov, is locked up long term.

As for White, he's currently bouncing back very nicely to top 6 form after a bad year where he didn't have a training camp in the same way Willy Nylander did in Toronto. Add a 2nd or conditional 2nd that becomes a 1st in 2021 if Ottawa makes playoffs and that more than covers a 1st in value.

On top of all that, when they say "a top player, a top prospect, and a 1st" they don't get to choose a SPECIFIC player. The team involved gives them options that fit the criteria to choose from. Usually that don't include players they are trying to aquire the asset to PLAY WITH and make the team better. That is why the team trading the BEST player will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage, and NOT in a position to FLEESE the AQUIRING team.

So again where is the problem? You still haven't exactly answered that. Am I wrong about the things I'm saying?


17.) 03 Mar 2021 15:55:05
Nylander on what planet is a Center more valuable than a dman?

Look around the league and do a head count. Bonified TOP 3 Centers vs Bonified Top 2 dmen. Guaranteed you'll find more Centers as Defense like that are a lot harder to come by. Most teams don't even have a true top 2 dman, while some teams have 2 top 3 centers. That makes Defense a much more valuable asset if they are good and Karlsson was the best when traded. I get that eichel is younger and signed longer but all that does is bridge that gap in value.


18.) 03 Mar 2021 16:13:31
Lol I would never do this from a sens perspective. Eichel and Dahlin put up great numbers but are proven losers, they have a contending team around them and still sit at bottom of league. Those are selfish players you don’t want in your locker room. Ottawa just needs to keep the core they have and let their prospects develop- not trade them before they actually become valuable. Commit to the rebuild, not give it up for losers that won’t win them anymore games and will strangle them cap wise.


19.) 03 Mar 2021 17:09:31
Oh, so its just you Babolski, I remember ya. Haha, no point in arguing with ya mate, I remember your old Ottawa posts, no matter what people would say about quality>quantity, you'd say that all the pieces are quality, xd.


20.) 04 Mar 2021 03:57:47
Topshelf all you seem to do is bash no rhyme no reason. I've given you the chance to make your case as to why it's not worth it but instead you just try to force your oppinion rather than back it up with facts or statistical evidence. I have backed up what I believe with concrete proof. The ball is in your court. Are you you going to actually do something about it or is bashing my beliefs of the matter without evidence as good as you got? Nothing I have said so far has been proven otherwise. You are just mad because you know I am right and have no way of proving otherwise because such a way does not exist. Call me what you will but at least back up your talk if possible 😆


 

 

 

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06 May 2021 23:22:10
Since Toronto still has Dubas who won't trade Nylander, who does Toronto actually give up in that anahiem deal?

Also how does every player involved on both sides of that trade end up on Leafs lineup? 😆

Sens_Able

 

 

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26 Apr 2021 22:43:56
Moxnix

what are you talking about? Brady is undoubtedly better than Matthew hands down.

Top 5 is still top 5 weak draft or not and still carries tons of value.

Tychonic will be a bottom 4 dman at worst

And normally you're right about past trade values however when that past trade was only within the last 3 years, in this case 2, and the player himself has been playing as good or better than he did at the time of that trade like Dzingle has been then he'll yeah you can compare it to current value to establish what he's worth, you'd be dumb not to.

As for Brown, as of this past January 2021 he is litterally STILL listed as the 62nd BEST NHL prospect league wide. In that write up it is stated that those around the league STILL view his as a future top 6 possible top 3 center whether you like him or not, the league clearly does still think pretty highly of the kid. Here's the link if you still have the urge to argue common sense.

Top 100 Prospects

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26 Apr 2021 22:33:05
Nylander you are on some great drugs. Eichel might be near or at most on Alfie level but in NO way is he above a prime Alfie, get real. The got ain't even a point a game player in his career for one, nor has he EVER led his team to even a single playoff game in 5 years despite having loads of talent surrounding him in that period from Orielly to Kane, to Reinhardt Dahlin Risto and Hall among others. Top that off with the injuries in that time and the known fact that he's frustrated, wants out, and has a no trade clause kicking in this offseason and it's pretty clear how far off your evaluation truly is.

White, Brown, a 2023 top 10 protected 1st, and Branstrom would be more than enough to get the trade done. Adding Stutzle or Sanderson is just a dreamers request. Tell your bad proposals to someone else dumb enough to believe they carry merit.

And Colin White definitely does NOT have negative value what so ever, keep dreaming fan boy

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25 Apr 2021 03:38:41
Lmfao Didn't Hartman get a 1st for him last time he was traded? Lol isn't worth much pfft. Players value don't go down that drastically that fast

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24 Apr 2021 21:15:02
Renidrag

I totally missed that one lol two 1sts from a rebuilding team, top 10 protected or not, plus 2 over qualified 3rd line centers, and a future top 2 or 3 dman is so far off you need to add a top 3 pick who's a top 6 forward in year 1 on top of all that? Lmfao give your head a feel Nylander 😆 clearly you lost a few brain cells over the course of your life 😆

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