16 Aug 2022 01:30:19
Ari :
Chychrun, Guenther, Ladd
Ott :
Zaitsev,
Sokolov,
Boucher,
Thompson,
Formenton,
2024 1st,
Arizona asking price of 1 roster player (Alex Formenton), a 1st round pick (2024 1st), and 2 high end Prospects (Boucher and Thompson)
Ottawa swaps out Zaitsevs contract for Chychruns by adding Sokolov which would be all it would take to offload Zaitsev to a team like Arizona anyway because his contract is bad but NOT completely terrible and only has 2 years left, plus Arizona will need to recoup some cap hit to reach cap floor anyway and has already shown plenty of interest in Sokolov.
That being said, I also threw in Guenther as a way to offload Ladd contract for Arizona as well which wouldn't hurt Ottawa because it only has 1 year left on it and he could bring some veteran leadership for that year before they let him rock and due to the crazy overpayment for Chychrun, Guenther is a way to even it out a bit while also helping Arizona drop ties with Ladds contract while addressing a need in Ottawa of a weaker Rght Wing area. Batherson is great as is Giroux bout when Giroux done in 3 years he will be 37 years old so be great idea to groom a replacement and Guenther could be that.
Also note that Boucher happens to be an Arizona native who would be coming home essentially. And Formenton will easily instantly fit in their TOP 6 if not their TOP 3 forwards. And Chychrun already on record saying he'd be thrilled to go to Ottawa as he loves the moves they've been making.
1.) 16 Aug 2022
16 Aug 2022 04:42:01
Thanks for the post MyBad. Take out Guenther & Ladd and this package will get probably you Chychrun
The 1st + Bouchard make sense. Including Thompson to have them take Formenton (who is not better than Dube btw, not at this time anyway) instead of Shane Pinto makes sense
I get Zaitsev has to go the other way to make the $$$ work and I appreciate you offering compensation for them to do so in Sokolov but can you include a link or show us where ARI has expressed interest in Sokolov and where Chychrun has stated he’d be thrilled to go to OTT!? I’m sure both could be the case and Chychrun would be thrilled to join any other team other Team at this point but I haven’t heard or read these claims
ARI won’t part with Guenther and have no need to pay a Team to take Ladd on since you yourself identified they are a Cap Floor Team needing Salary to get over the hump. They want Picks & Young Prospects, so won’t be giving up their 9th Overall Top Prospect
I know this seems like an overpay to you and OTT fans, but if they want Chychrun, that’s gonna be the price they have to pay. I think he’s overrated and has injury issues, but he is in high demand and comes on a team friendly contract so that’s why the price is so high
You’re not gonna get Crouse, Guenther or any of their Top Prospects UNLESS OTT has one they like more and want to do a Prospect Swap
PS Our bet still stands but how to complete it or make it for money is an issue Im not sure how to facilitate so maybe it’s just a friendly reminder and for bragging rights, but I’m certain unless OTT substantially improves their Defence my Flames 1st line will out perform each of OTT’s Top 2 Lines and Dube will out perform Formenton.
Take Care and I Hope All Is Well Your Way. Can’t wait to see how things play out! ?.
2.) 16 Aug 2022
16 Aug 2022 22:40:51
TrevorA the package for Chychrun is essentially
Formenton
Thompson
The 2024 1st
And Sokolov
Which is more than enough.
Then Ottawa needs to include Zaitsevs 2 years so they take back Ladds 1 year as they can just let him go next season without hirting their cap hit.
However due to Ladds contract being a bit worst Ottawa adds Boucher the 10th overall pick for Guenther the 9th overall pick which actually gives Arizona the better end of the value tree from these 4 guys slightly and allows Ottawa a chance to address a need at RW while Arizona brings a hometown kid back into the fold.
And I already proved you wrong on the Formenton Dube debate. At this point in time their stats are neer identical and they have a 2 year age gap between them lmfao Formenton is 22 years old and Dube is 24 years old. Dube is pretty well near his games peak while Formenton still has lots of time to get even better. Do the math dude. It's common sense stuff here.
Darn right our bet still stands. It's too bad we couldn't figure out how we can do this for money, we could likely do a few side bets here too by the looks of it.
Flames are still a Canadian team so I do hope they can do well but I still stand by sens being better, and both our lines out performing yours as well as Formenton being better than Dube easy. And just so we are clear on the bet, division titles mean absolutely nothing here, it's about overall points standings. As Calgary really hasn't got a lot of divisional competition outside Edmonton and MAYBE Vegas. While Ottawa has to contend with Toronto, Florida, Boston, and Tampa. So Ottawa not likely to win division but Calgary has a great chance to do so in a weaker division so to make the bet fair, if Calgary wins their division with 112 points and Ottawa comes 5th in their division with 113 points, the division win means nothing and I still win the bet.
3.) 16 Aug 2022
16 Aug 2022 23:41:34
I agree on the Division/ Points, but OTT hasn't improved enough to beat the Flames. They don't have the Defense, Experience, Goaltending or Coaching to win more games
We'll have to agree to disagree on Formenton & Dube and let their play do the talking this season as I feel I've proven you wrong based on TOI, PS, SH%, FO% stats and their Junior History. Again, Dube is only 1 year older than Formenton and is sufficiently better to have played twice as many games even though they've both been active players for 4 years.
Formenton's 1st NHL Game was in 2017-2018 whereas Dube didn't play a Game until 2018-19. Dube was good enough to stay on the Roster even with Greater Competition whereas Formenton was not until this season where he made the best of it, but there's absolutely no guarantee at this point that he can a) replicate it or b) be consistent and continue to improve whereas Dube has and is showing an upward trajectory. Could Formeton surpass him, maybe, but I doubt it and the debate was who it the Better Player right now, which to me is clearly Dube
In terms of your Proposal, this is what it takes to get Chychrun:
1st Round Pick-OTT
Formenton
Thompson (I'd be sending/ dumping Erik Brannstrom if it were me)
Bouchard
Sokolov is the cost to send Zaitsev to make the $$$ work
Alternatively switch Formenton + Thompson out for Shane Pinto instead
Does OTT have any interest in Jack Beck and if so, what's his value to you, it has to have jumped significantly no!? Also, what would it take to get Austin Watson or better yet Mark Kastelic?
4.) 17 Aug 2022
16 Aug 2022 23:53:22
OTT would be silly to take back Ladd and again ARI very likely won't Trade Guenther unless Jake Sanderson is on the table, which I think we both agree would be a no go from OTT's stand point, but that's who ARI will truly want in a deal for Chychrun.
5.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 01:29:31
That is so far off it's crazy dude. Fleecing like that rarely ever happen, when the do, most of the time they aren't significantly noticeable right from the start like this. Tkachuk trade was a total Fleecing of Florida, gm was on some cheap drugs when he that garbage happen and kudos to Calgary for some how making that possible but again, those kind of trades are far and few between. And Dorian can be an idiot at times sure but I like to think he ain't that stupid.
Fact is Chychrun wants to be traded, Arizona wants to trade Chychrun while hes worth something before he gets too close to his UFA status. In these cases you take fair value. Fleecing another team is NOT an option. Fair value is pretty much what I posted. Your proposal is a complete Fleecing nearly as bad as that Tkachuk trade. And you can't seriously say in all seriousness that that wasn't a horrible deal for Florida.
As for Kastelik and Watson. Those guys at this point won't be worth trading. Be lucky to get a 3rd to a 5th to Watson or a 5th to a 7th for Kastelik. But when the trade deadline comes around, playoff teams get desperate for smaller pieces, look at Hagel or Hartman or Goodrow in recent years. Not one of those guys were worth the haul they got. Hell I'll even even admit we also pulled a few of those off recently with Pageau, Dzingle, and Brassard. So to sum it up, now garbage, trade deadline, we can find a suckered playoff team and turn Watson for as high as a late 2nd or early 3rd. Or move Kastelik for a late 3rd to late 5th depending what teams are in need of.
Chychrun don't share that option as playoff teams are the only ones who would over pay in those situations and for the price Arizona wants, that is high enough as is and would make a playoff team weaker rather than improve it as they don't have as many high end young prospects to bargain with and their picks won't be enticing enough so they'd be forced to get the value needed from main roster which would hurt more than help.
So in a star players case the best time to trade them is in the off-season the year before their free agency or earlier preferrably.
6.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 06:39:24
Jake DeBrusk demanded a Trade and look what happened there. There’s no immediate rush for ARI to move Chychrun. They’ll wait till they get what he wants and will take the gamble he performs better this year only increasing his value
Would OTT take Barrett Hayton + ARI’s 2nd RD Pick + Cam Dineen + Connor Timmons for Jake Sanderson!?
7.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 07:11:05
Should say till ARI gets what they want for Chychrun
In regards to the “Fleecing” for the Tkachuk Trade, Panthers get 8 Years of Matthew Tkachuk's Peak Playing Years
Worst Case Scenario: Flames get 1 Season of Huberdeau & Weegar and are left with a late 1st and 3rd Round Prospect to show for it and no longer have a Super Star. Mid-Case CGY Trades Huberdeau & Weegar for additional assets but still lost a Super Star. Best Case CGY sign both Huberdeau & Weegar long term and CGY get 6-10 Years of Peak Play from both combined
CGY will likely win this Trade only because Treliving will have Signed and/ or Traded each of these guys to increase the value of the Trade, so it’s not really a “Fleecing” imo
At the end of the day, it simply costs a ton to pry away or acquire a Proven Young Star, regardless if they want out and it’s known
OTT paid their Early 1st + 2nd + 3rd Round Picks and Matthew Tkachuk >> DeBrincat.
8.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 19:02:14
That response just shows how out of tune with trade value of players you are. It was 100% a fleecing any day of the week. A guy in Huberdeau who arguably is better than Tkachuk now plus a solid looking prospect plus a 1st in 2 years time plus an easy top 4 dman who can log top 2 minutes. Tkachuk Weager and Huberdeau were all unsigned when traded and now both Tkachuk and Huberdeau are signed. Even if Weager walks for nothing Calgary still wins that trade large. That's a fleecing.
Matthew Tkachuk is slightly better than DeBrincat but not by a lot at all.
And FYI, Brent Wallace posted Arizona asking price for Chychrun and it ain't as bad as you seem to think. They want a similar package to what Chicago gave for Jones, two 1sts and a high end prospect. So yeah something like Thompson a 2025 1st and a 2024 1st or a few prospects of equal value would be more than enough to satisfy that ask. All my proposals are much better than that and you know it.
9.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 21:50:22
Tkachuk at 9.5M until he’s 32 is worth waaaay more than Huberdeau at 10.5M until he’s 38.
10.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 22:45:33
Actually Tkachuk was Signed as part of the Trade; Huberdeau WAS NOT. Hubderdeau IS BETTER than Tkachuk for sure, but at Trade Time we were only guaranteed 1 year of his services. Now we have him signed for 9 years, but the BIG difference is he'll only be at his peak for the next 4-5 years whereas Florida should get 8+ years of Peak Play out of Tkachuk
Weegar's still only locked up for 1 year at the moment. FLA had to include the 1st + Schwindt since Huberdeau & Weegar were technically rentals & risks to both walk after 1 year at the time of the Trade. In any event, why would FLA offer & pay more than they absolutely need too? They obviously really wanted and valued Tkachuk and understand what it costs to acquire a SuperStar
Tkachuk 42G+62A=104PTS/ 82GP=1.27PPG with 1468TOI/ 17:54ATOI
>>
DeBrincat 41G+37A=78PTS/ 82GP=0.95PPG with 1710TOI/ 20:51ATOI
Tkachuk Scored 26 More Points Playing 16.5% less TOI, which is like DeBrincat Playing 11-12 More Games than Tkachuk.
I'm certain DeBrincat will struggle to put up anywhere close to 1.00PPG this season not playing on the 1st line and without arguably the best USA Player & PlayMaker ever in Patrick Kane setting him up. I don't even know if Tkachuk can put up the same numbers this season, but Huberdeau probably will
Yes, ARI wants what CLB got for Seth Jones which is the equivalent of THREE Top (like 3rd-15th Overall) 1st Round Picks for Chychrun = OTT's 1st + Jake Sanderson + Tyler Boucher and will take back Zaitsev for that BUT they'll likely have to settle for Pinto (or Formenton + either Brannstrom, Thompson or Docker) + Bouchard + Sokolov + Zaitsev + OTT's 1st instead WHICH is way less than what CHI paid for Seth Jones: 2018-8th Overall Pick/ Boqvist + 2021-12th Overall Pick/ Sillinger + 2022-6th Overall Pick/ Jiricek (the rest of the Trade is pretty much a wash)
If OTT wants Chychrun this is the price they'll have to pay and yes, it's even more than what they paid to acquire DeBrincat because Chychrun's Cap Hit is $1.8mil less next season and about $3.25-4mil less the next 2 Seasons once DeBrincat signs his new contract & his Cap Hit jumps to $7.85-8.5mil+. Getting a Team Friendly Contract like Cychrun's adds HUGE additional value
If OTT isn't willing to pay the price, they should remove themselves from the Bidding War/ Chychrun Sweepstakes. ARI is in complete control here too, since they have Chychrun tied up for 3 more seasons and Chychrun has No = ZERO Trade Protection, Control or Say, so I believe they'll be Patient till they get what they want or not much less.
11.) 17 Aug 2022
17 Aug 2022 22:46:55
Right @Ebs!? PLUS Huberdeau wasn't worth as much as a pending UFA at the time of the Trade either.
12.) 18 Aug 2022
18 Aug 2022 16:48:59
Baddie bro don't get so bent outta shape over this lol Trevor is obviously trolling you bad, it's actually kind of funny really lol and you're totally falling for it Hook line and sinker. Just look at his last post. Noone in their right mind actually believes half the stuff he's saying, especially the bit about Chychrun being worth Sanderson plus Boucher plus a 1st just to get rid of Zaitsev lol even he himself knows that for a package like that Arizona would at least have to add Logan Cooley and Dylan Guenther to even that trade out. Sanderson alone is worth more than Chychrun let alone in a package let alone in a deal like this. The ask is like you said two 1sts and a solid prospect. I can't see much more than a 1st, 2nd, and something like Boucher or Thompson myself if Zaitsev is not involved but if Zaitsev is involved perhaps they add Jarventie or Sokolov and change the 2nd to a conditional 1st that becomes a 2nd if Ottawa misses the playoffs again.
Just don't sweat this guy lol he's probably sitting back chugging a beer and laughing at how much he can get you so riled up by as you keep saying "undercutting" the sens system lol. I know I am laughing at his comments myself because I know he don't even believe half the stuff he says himself. Lol
If it makes you feel any better look at the agrees vs disagrees on both your comments lol majority here agrees with you, not him lol just let that sink in for a second. The fact he keeps commenting despite the lack of support just shows he's only saying that crap to get under your skin lol he probably has nothing better to do than trolling on here lol.
13.) 18 Aug 2022
18 Aug 2022 19:24:16
Well said Marcus…you just never know what kind of state some of these “hockey minds” are working from, so best just to ignore the crazy and sift through the rest for the occasional interesting idea or conversation. ?
Be well Marcus, and post more frequently!
14.) 18 Aug 2022
18 Aug 2022 21:39:28
Your probably right Marcus1, I'm just sick of him contradicting common hockey sense when the facts and stats are against him as plain as day. But hey thanks for pointing out the support and lack there of lol.
And TrevorA you do realize Ottawa and Toronto are the top 2 in that bidding war right? And NO Sanderson and Pinto were NOT mentioned in any talks yet regarding Chychrun and yet we are STILL the front runners. I believe the high end prospect so far being talked about is Grieg or Boucher or Thompson. And I still would rather NOT include Grieg. And Formenton actually carries more value than all those guys currently.
And FYI NO Tkachuk was NOT signed yet when traded, he signed hours after the trade. And As for DeBrincat comment, Kane was his only quality linemate in Chicago where he put up 40 goals lol in Ottawa he will litteraly be playing with Batherson who was a point a game guy, and Stutzle who was near a point a game guy going I to his 3rd season which is expected to be his breakout year.
Stutzle also plays a similar style to Kane and has even been compared to Kane himself, highly doubt those 2 guys will hinder DeBrincat in any way. And Norris was a near 40 goal guy himself and Tkachuk I've seen articles and interviews stating they predict with all the big moves Ottawa made Tkachuk will benefit most and become a top 5 player in the league. So yeah I doubt DeBrincat will suffer on either unit lol.
15.) 19 Aug 2022
19 Aug 2022 02:01:28
Hey MYBAD, you seem like a good dude. Don’t let him get your goat as the old saying goes. If you read his posts it kind of leaves hints that he’s not necessarily playing with a full 52 ya know? Who knows what his deal is…and who cares? There’s plenty of others who enjoy hearing from you, so it’s all good?.