NHL talk 6

 

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27 Oct 2018 15:08:02
2016 nhl draft redo

1. Mattews

2. Laine

3. McAvoy

4. Tackchuck

5.Dubois

6. Sergachev

7.Keller

8. Chychrun

9.Jost

10.Girard

Agree1 Disagree6

27 Oct 2018 19:27:34
What reason is there to put McAvoy over Sergachev?
I'll also have Dubois over Keller over Tkachuk.

27 Oct 2018 22:51:33
Matthews
Laine
Tkachuk
Keller
Dubois
Macavoy
Debrincat
Sergachev
Girard.

27 Oct 2018 23:57:48
Debrincat has to be up there.

28 Oct 2018 08:31:21
See the Arizona/ tampa game where sergachev was expected to play 2nd pair minutes instead of 3rd pair and was somehow a minus 6 eventhough no other dman on the team was worse then minus 2. Yeah that's why mcavoy is better right now. Macavoy hasn't been playing sheltered minutes and is as good defensively as he is offensively. It could be easily argued that Macavoy is the best dman on his team while serg playing his best is probably still only 4th on his team. And I know tampa has a slightly better defense then boston but still.

28 Oct 2018 13:12:16
Mcavoi can log hard minutes effectively reminds me of a young ryan Suter/ Eric Johnson.

28 Oct 2018 14:20:51
Debrincat should be in they're in they're instead of Girard you're right I forgotabout him. he's so good I forgot he was drafted just 2 years ago ahah.

28 Oct 2018 16:28:14
Matthews
Laine
McAvoy
Tkachuk
Keller
Debrincat
Sergachev
Dubois
Chych
Jost.

28 Oct 2018 18:35:57
Just to clear something up BoomBoom the proper word is there. They’re means they are.

28 Oct 2018 18:59:08
Really VB? This is hockey talk. not friggin grammar 101.

28 Oct 2018 20:58:34
He obviously doesn’t speak English well so I’m just helping him out.

28 Oct 2018 23:43:59
I know I'm not the guy to talk about this because between my own mistakes and auto correct my grammar is mediocre at best. But vbb I really wouldn't give grammar lessons to anyone else if I were you lol.

29 Oct 2018 01:16:47
VB and Leafs17 are offended and salty about the most simple things ever. It's awesome. It's the entertainment factor that keeps me coming back here.

29 Oct 2018 01:39:12
I can fluently write and speak English.

29 Oct 2018 04:52:03
Atta boy VB⭐⭐ gold stars for you!

29 Oct 2018 08:36:45
Lol Habby 2 still salty you traded away Sergachev, eh? Very convincing basing your argument on a single game in which Sergachev was a -6. Since you apparently watched the game, I'm sure you realized two of the minuses he got were SHG against on which Kucherov had two bad giveaways where Sergachev had nothing to do with. Basing an argument on +/ - will never work, buddy, horrible stat.

29 Oct 2018 12:30:22
I don’t think anyone can or will argue Sergachev has a good game against Arizona. But his partners were Koekkoek and Coburn, and it’s hardly his first game in a top 4 role. +/ - is a very flawed stat, he had a bad game, but was top 4 at the end of last season and all playoffs and was fine. McAvoy is better, but Sergy isn’t some 3rd pair scrub because of one game, here’s hoping he rebounds nicely.

29 Oct 2018 17:15:46
No I'm fine with the trade. My point was just to prove Macavoy at this time is better. Mainly because he's not playing sheltered minutes like serg. We will have to wait and see how serg does when he gets off the 3rd pairing to find out if he can pass Macavoy.

29 Oct 2018 17:19:47
As of now he looks more like malahkov then Macavoy.

29 Oct 2018 17:35:03
Lol. there is a name I haven't heard I awhile. man he drove me nuts . Malakhov.
I agree, as of now. MacAvoy looks better, I think it's still a little to early to tell, especially with Defenseman.

29 Oct 2018 21:09:22
No need to bring me into every conversation yupp? Your maturity level coincides with how well your team plays. You notice myself, Jim and shoots all told you where to go in previous threads. Nobody agrees with the nonsense you speak, other than Sosa. Why don’t you let these guys have a conversation and leave me out of it. Unless you’re “scared” and you want to talk about it.

29 Oct 2018 22:44:48
Lol. how am I getting dragged into your little spat Leafs17?

30 Oct 2018 09:02:37
Just that you agree with most things yupp says, probably because you’re also an Oiler fan.

30 Oct 2018 11:43:26
Oh for sure it's too early Sosa projecting who will be better 5 years down the road is impossible at this point. But as you say Macavoy has the edge right now., malahkov was a headache to wAtch lol. I forget who it was that said some nights he looks like ray bourque the all star but most nights he looks like joe bourque the truck driver.

30 Oct 2018 11:50:11
VBB didn’t have to point out the grammar thing. But Yupp and Mcjesus make a point of picking on peoples grammar religiously. And laugh at misspelt names all the time. So, take a second before jumping on him.

30 Oct 2018 11:51:16
Leafs17, that’s not true. I’ve really come around to Yupps thinking. He makes so many good points that I now realize that he’s right. Leafs would be dumb not to give the oilers a Josh Leivo and a 3rd round pick for a $2million healthy scratch from a team that’s thin up front lol anyone that doesn’t want Kassian on their team, or thinks Chiarelli lost the hall/ Larson trade or lost the Barzal pick/ Reinhart trade or lost the eberle/ strome trade or lost the draisatl negotiation or overrated Lucic’s value on july 1st is an idiot who doesn’t know what they’re talking about and just love to hate.

30 Oct 2018 16:39:44
Everyone who doesn’t agree with yupp is salty and we’re all too easily offended, lol. He was quiet forever when his team was rubbish, weird. Anyways, he’s trying to change the topic on another thread so I’ll let it go.

30 Oct 2018 17:11:42
Hahah. Habby. I totally remember that line. the Ray Bourque one. that was hilarious. Was it Harry Neale? Not sure.

30 Oct 2018 18:46:52
Leafs 17. not so much of an Oilers fan. as I am a McDavid fan. jus like. I like the Pens. cause of Crosby. so. If those players weren't on those teams, doubt I'd follow them much.
Habs every day all day for me. however. although I'm a BC boy, geographically I'm closer to Edmonton and Calgary than Van. so I tend to secretly cheer for the Flames as well. Lol.

30 Oct 2018 23:13:08
I think Sergachev is going to be really good, I like his game and have Made it known I think habs made a mistake letting him go. That being said, I have seen a lot of mcavoy too and I think he’s definitely a step ahead at this time. Things can change but he’s doing an incredible job in a bigger role so far. Both are in that top 10 in a redraft for me, just one actually was, the other has fought his way into it.

27 Oct 2018 14:52:04
Who gets more points this year


Drouin or Duchene

Horvat or RNH

Kotkaniemi or Svechnikov

Boeser or eilers

Laine or Marner

Domi or Galchenyuk

Agree1 Disagree0

27 Oct 2018 17:11:40
Duchene
RNH. as long as he stays with McDavid
Svechnikov
Ehlers
Marner
Domi.

27 Oct 2018 18:26:02
Duchene
Nuge
Not sure
Boeser
Laine
Not sure.

27 Oct 2018 19:28:25
Drouin

RNH

Svechnikov

Boeser

Marner

Domi (Galchenyuk missed like 10 games already, he won't make that up, but I vote higher ppg for AG)

28 Oct 2018 16:29:47
Drouin
RNH
Svech, idk if Kotka will stay the whole year.
Boeser
Marner
Galchenyuk.

27 Oct 2018 01:54:40
Domi or Mantha

Lindholm or Horvat

Ristolainen or Jones

Kotkaniemi or Zadina

Ehlers or Nylander

Agree0 Disagree4

27 Oct 2018 03:42:43
Domi
Horvat
Jones
Kotkaniemi now. before I seen him play I was mad we didn't pick Zadina
Nylander.

27 Oct 2018 04:03:31
Mantha
Lindholm
Jones
Zadina
Ehlers.

27 Oct 2018 08:36:56
Mantha
Horvat
Jones (really? )
Zadina
Ehlers.

27 Oct 2018 09:49:39
Mantha
Horvat
Jones
Kotkaniemi
Nylander.

27 Oct 2018 13:28:36
Domi ( tough choice Mantha could be better )
Lindholm
Jones
Zandina
Nylander.

27 Oct 2018 13:28:51
Personally my choices would be the same as Sosa. But mantha/ domi, kot/ zadina, nylander/ ehlers are probably too close to call either way right now. I like horvat slightly more then lindholm and jones beats risto by a landslide.

27 Oct 2018 14:54:13
Ristolainen is a little better then Jones at of now.

27 Oct 2018 17:09:53
Boom Boom. . Have you been watching Jones the last 2 years? he's now in the upper echelon of Dmen. probably a perennial Norris candidate.

27 Oct 2018 19:30:02
Lol that comment immediately disqualifies you from literally everything. Jones is a Norris caliber defenseman already, he finished 4th last year in voting.
Ristolainen is horrible defensively by pretty much every stat there is on earth.
And even offensively Jones has clearly overtaken Risto already, so there's no way to argue what you're arguing.

27 Oct 2018 19:44:30
Horvat and lindholm not even close horvat way better.

28 Oct 2018 00:02:18
Hampus Lindholm? I’ll take a minute munching top pairing 2way dman over a good defensive 1b C. Horvat is very close to Kadri IMO slight edge to either depending on needs I’d prefer Horvat long term.

28 Oct 2018 08:27:20
I assumed he meant elias lindholm.

28 Oct 2018 13:15:37
Should’ve specified.

28 Oct 2018 14:23:15
Elias.

28 Oct 2018 18:41:24
All the comparisons are Forward/ forward and Dman/ Dman. I just assumed it was Elias as well.

28 Oct 2018 21:00:40
Elias Lindholm should be compared to a player like Silverburg not Horvat. Horvat is way battter.

30 Oct 2018 03:14:44
Lindholm has 12 points in 11 games.

26 Oct 2018 16:23:48
Hey folks,

as you might know, we have a fantasy hockey league with members from this website. One of the members has been missing for 3 weeks now, so we're looking to replace him. It's a keeper league in which every team gets to keep 6 players for next season.
Some short info on the league: 10 teams, 20 man rosters, scoring for skaters: G, A, PIM, +/ -, SOG, STP, ATOI, HIT and for goalies W, GAA, SV%

You don't have to be super active if you don't want to but you should at least set your lines each day and make an add/ drop every once in a while when it's necessary.
The team you'd be overtaking is currently 9th/ 10 because of the previous owners inactivity but has some good players, for example: Giroux, Aho, Barkov, Gostisbehere, Marchessault, Couturier, W. Karlsson, Monahan, Barrie, Stone and Bishop among others.

So, if you're interested, let me know below this post. In case several people are interested, it might not hurt to list your previous fantasy hockey experiences and your usual activity level. Also feel free to include a reason why you are the perfect new member for our sweet lil league.

Thanks.

Ps: Also thanks to the nhl-trade-rumors.com page for making this possible.

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Oct 2018 16:39:31
I'd like to join.

Previous experience includes countless insults to Finest related to his being bald and fat. But don't let that make you think I'm one dimensional, I'm good at Insulting VB's intelligence and complimenting Finest's stupidity as well.

As for activity, I'll usually be good for an average of two solid chirps a day. Sometimes it'll be zero, others I'll get on a roll and notice stupidity from Finest and hit 20-30.

I'm the perfect member because I know you love me.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best,
Big Shank.

26 Oct 2018 16:57:34
shanks needs a second team to combine with his current one to stand a chance. i vote for shanks.

26 Oct 2018 17:00:39
lol two great comments to begin with - as you see, league is quite fun.

26 Oct 2018 17:07:16
Previous experience: 4 years of intense hockey pooling lol.

Thank you for you consideration,

Boom Boom.

26 Oct 2018 17:51:53
What platform do you use to run the league?
Shank - it's been a while - good to see you post again.

26 Oct 2018 22:38:47
@TT: forgot to mention that, yeah, good find. We're using Fantrax and it's a free league, in case anyone was wondering about that.

27 Oct 2018 19:30:55
Don't be shy guys.

ThunderTurkey and BoomBoom interested, anyone else?

25 Oct 2018 01:50:59
This is just for fun, don't take me serious. It's hypothetical.

ARI - Auston Matthews
TOR - Oliver Ekman-Larsson

1 for 1

Elite D-Man for Elite Center

Agree3 Disagree10

25 Oct 2018 10:47:48
Arizona adds.

25 Oct 2018 22:52:07
Arizona adds Storm and a 1st, but it still may not be enough for Matthews. The Coyotes should wait until July 1st and give Matthews a crazy offer sheet of $15 mil plus per year.

26 Oct 2018 15:57:31
If they did that, no other team would ever trade with them. Although, it would be really funny.

27 Oct 2018 19:46:57
Oel not in the top ten d in the league way would you trade a top 3 center in the league for maybe the 20 best d man.

24 Oct 2018 23:07:30
Habs fans.. and whoever else..
Is Kotkaniemi going to stay? Do you think it's the right call?
Also.. I can't remember, but if a player is loaned to World Jr.. can they come back to NHL?

I like what the kid has done, he has shown a lot of poise, hockey sense and good mental maturity for a kid barely 18 years old.. my only concern is his physical make up at this stage. he will fill out in time.

Was skeptical of him being picked 3rd, but now am quite happy with the pick. I am on the fence if he should stay. looks like he's gonna. and that's fine. if able to loan him to World Jrs and bring him back, I think that would be great. if ya can. like I said can't remember.

Agree0 Disagree0

25 Oct 2018 00:15:19
I think he's staying at least till the 40 game mark.

25 Oct 2018 02:17:56
Yeah, they can send him and bring him back. If he’s their best player, or one of, and they’re still hanging around in the division maybe they keep him up. If they’re not having a great season by Christmas, could be a real good thing for him to get to go and play kids his own age, probably dominate.

25 Oct 2018 15:41:12
I think we should send him down to give him a better chance to develop and more ice time to be honest. But from what i remember hearing is that he would end up going back to Sweden and playing for the same league he was in before - which included adults. If that is the case i don't think it would be beneficial. I think it would be good to have him in the AHL to be honest. He would do very well there and get a lot of ice time to help him develop.

25 Oct 2018 16:52:00
Turkey, if he leaves I would sooner he go back to Finland. it may be just me but I don't think 18 year old kids should play there.

25 Oct 2018 17:17:39
My bad, i said Sweden for some reason. I meant the Finish league.
Would you rather him play back over in Europe Habby? I think he would see more competition over here.

25 Oct 2018 20:42:00
The Finnish elite league has enough competition I would think. what bothers me most about the ahl is that a lot of the time it is probably the most physical and dirty leAgue of them all. On top of that they have horribly long road trips and a Awful schedule in general. I just don't feel any 18 year olds should play there. And in Kotkaniemis case I know if I were him I'd sooner go back home for another year if I wasn't staying in montreal.

25 Oct 2018 20:43:31
@turkey, Elias Peterson stayed in Europe for the extra year. Not saying to expect those results, he seems like a star already, but his development definitely wasn’t hurt at all by being comfortable at home in a good league if not in the NHL.

25 Oct 2018 20:41:45
If he doesn't stick., I'd like to see him in North America. get use to the style over here. However, I think he stays in NHL, which as long as he's not expected to be the savior and Julien keeps him at center even during some down times/ mistakes ect. (which he will have) . I'm fine with it . but as Jim let me know, he can go to Jrs and come back. that would be best thing for him!

26 Oct 2018 12:00:47
Didn't Montreal loan mete to team Canada last year? If habs are still in the playoff hunt and kotkaniemi is still with them I doubt he will see the world jr tourney.

26 Oct 2018 16:11:31
I agree, AHL is a more physical league. But that is why i prefer NA players. Stop looking at the puck all the time and learn to keep your head up before you get injured. Everything has been toned down so much just because people spend too much time watching the puck on the end of their stick and not what was happening around them. Scott Stevens taught a lot of players some valuable lessons about that :)

26 Oct 2018 17:00:28
Ya that's right Habby. They did loan Mete. not sure why I couldn't remember that. Lol.
Maybe Habs arein the hunt at that's time. I highly doubt it, but even if they are, they are pretenders, not contenders. I say let the kid go be a star for 2 weeks and gain some confidence . However, he looks confident in the NHL. so I don't know what the right thing to do is .

24 Oct 2018 22:10:14
By the sounds of it, Nylander should be signed in the next 48 hours (if the insiders are right) . I’ve read 2 reported solutions. First was 6 years between 6.5 and $7mill and the other was a bridge between $5.3 and $6mill. Wait and see I guess.

If he signs for $6.5, his cap hit for this year will show up as $7.5 range and 6.3 range for years 2-6. Nice little savings bonus for the teams cap situation going forward for losing him for 9 games.

Agree1 Disagree6

24 Oct 2018 23:39:00
Like when I hear the weather I shall believe it when it happens.

25 Oct 2018 06:09:01
I think everyone is sick and tired of the Nylander saga! IMO 6 mill is way too much for a 20 goal scorer.

25 Oct 2018 08:47:54
I’m sick of it too VanCity. I’m still holding out hope they trade him for a top 4 defenseman. However, he is a 60pt guy as well, not just 20 goals. If you’ve been reading the threads the past few days, there are many players of his caliber making more than that. Is he worth more, who knows? Matthews could make Kapanen a 60pt guy as well, which is what really good centers do.

25 Oct 2018 18:06:38
When he comes back to the NHL. I was wondering if you make him the 3rd line centre and move Kadri up to play left wing on Matthews line. At 6 to 7 mill you should be able to be the guy on a line and not run shotgun with a star.

25 Oct 2018 20:44:11
@vancity. They like Kadris game at centre a lot as a matchup/ shutdown guy. But your idea of balancing it out is what I thought too. I would leav kapanen on matthews RW and have Nylander on Kadris RW on the 3rd line.

Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
? - Kadri - Nylander

? Could be brown, Lindholm, Leivo, Johnsson or a colonization until you find the right fit. The others make up the 4th line with gauthier in the middle.

That way you spread out matthews/ jt/ marner and Nylander over 3 lines while keeping Kadri at centre.

25 Oct 2018 20:27:45
That’s true VanCity but he’s a good winger too. I actually think they put him on the 3rd line with Kadri. Kapanen has earned his right to stay on Matthews line. Nylander on the 3rd line should help Kadri get rolling and balance out the scoring. Nylander should have to prove he belongs where Kapanen is playing.

23 Oct 2018 14:48:03
Honest opinions from all fan bases wanted to avoid it being called a biased poll.

Rank these players in the order you would want them on your team if they all had identical Contracts.

Then do it again taking into consideration their current cap hit. They are all within 3 years of each other and all signed their second contracts between July 2016 and October 2017 (except Nylander of course)

Draisatl ($8.5)
Gaudreau ($6.75)
Ehlers ($6.0)
Pastrnak ($6.67)
Scheifele ($6.125)
Monahan ($6.375)
Mackinnon ($6.3)
Nylander (assume $6.75)

Agree1 Disagree6

23 Oct 2018 16:17:50
All these players wouldn't sign for those deals right now. So it's an unfair comparison. using mackinnon for your argument is completely flawed as he was coming off two straight horrible years when he signed it. I remember that deal being considered an over payment at the time. truth is draisitl is slightly high but he has proven much more then nylander.

All willie has proven so far is he can put up 60 points a year playing with matthews. Plus when you just compare the last two seasons Leon's numbers look considerably better this would be a better comparison cause neither player used anything before that for leverage in negotiations. i would say nylander at this point is at the bottom of the list for the players you mentioned. i could see him passing ehlers though. I'd have drais tied with pasta for 4th at this time.

1. Mack
2. scheifele
3. gaudreau
4. pasta/ draisitl
5. monahan
6. ehlers
7. nylander

Then of course because all the others were signed when the cap wasn't as high or after down years based on contract same order except draisitl would slip down to 5th or 6th but willie stays at the bottom even at 6.75 ( will probably get more)

23 Oct 2018 16:26:38
Like if your only going to base nylanders deal with what draisitl is making then I guess he deserves about 7 mil if you compare it to mackinnon he deserves about 3 mil I hope this helps lol.

23 Oct 2018 16:44:08
You should also post their season point totals the years leading up to their extensions for it to be a really fair informed poll.
You're reaching to hard man. It's sad.

23 Oct 2018 16:46:53
Man I can't wait for Mathews and Marnees big contracts.

23 Oct 2018 17:19:14
It's funny you try comparing wingers and centers contracts and only mention a select bunch of good ones that ill informed people will say omg Drais contract is rubbish without knowing the numbers in the years leading up to the signed extensions.

What about Ryan Johansen? $8M per year.
In the seasons leading up to his deal two summer sago his point totals were 58, 64, 30 (injured), 55, That got him $ per year. Then had 42 points in 65 games the year after signing said big deal. If you think Drais $8.5M deal after a 77 point season is terrible, What do you think
About Ryan Johanesen? Where's the post about that crazy bad contract. 🙄🙄
Talk about being biased when you try comparing wingers to centers, only mention the good deals, and don't even provide all the numbers of seasons point totals before signed extensions. Really pushing your biased point of view here man.

23 Oct 2018 19:26:40
Contracts tend to reflect the other contracts on the team. Drais said he wasn't worth less than half of mcdavid. He was right. you've now got Tavares. Is nylander 5 million less than him. No.
Pasternak took his deal because he wasn't worth more than Bergeron.

24 Oct 2018 12:41:42
1.Mack
2.Schifle
3. Guadreau
4.Pasta
5.Monahan
6.Nylander
7. Drais
8.Ehlers.

24 Oct 2018 22:01:34
I’m not reaching at anything. 8 players. Similar age. All got long term deals around the same time. Regardless of the situation that exact minute, we can now judge which ones are overpaid, which are underpaid and which are paid right. This all started trying to find Nylander's proper value, so I would think comparing 7 players in a similar situation, and now with the added data of a season or 2 after the fact, can help do that. If anyone wants to tell me that draisatl is paid properly or actually wprth more than the others on the list, they’re able to do that here.

24 Oct 2018 22:05:20
Ryan Johanssens is a 3rd contract. They were buying up 6 years of his UFA status from him, not 2 years like Draisatl and the rest of them. Talk about ill informed. That’s like you comparing Nylander to UFA evander Kane again. Not the same situation at all.

All the guys I brought up were RFAs coming off ELCs and all similar age. Obviously it costs more to buy more UFA seasons, that’s common sense. Oilers had all the leverage for the next 5-6 years with draisatl, like leafs do with Nylander and avalanche and jets did with mackinnon and scheifele. Nashville didn’t with johansen. How can you say that’s the same?! Lol.

24 Oct 2018 22:07:53
And @Habby, I agree with yours. And this isn’t to pump Nylanders tires. I would have him and ehlers at the bottom as well which is the point I made at the very beginning. It’s no leaf bias. He’s below all these players and that’s why I say he’s worth max what they are making 1-2 years later. It’s me saying draisatl isn’t worth 30% more than everyone else on that list that ruffled feathers and apparently is hating. I don’t think he’s 20% better than that list, let alone 30%.

24 Oct 2018 22:11:57
Yes alpaca that's true also percentage of the cap is huge and whether or not a player carries a line or if his point totals are inflated because of who he plays with.

24 Oct 2018 22:12:48
Alpaca, I get what you mean, but why did Krejci sign a year after and get more than Bergeron, chara and Rask then?

24 Oct 2018 22:14:14
@yupp

1) Johansen's is his 3rd contract, not his second like everyone I used. He wasn’t coming off an ELC and they bought up 6 years of his UFA eligibility, not 1-2 like all the guys we were talking about. That’s very different and far more expensive. I figured you would know that. When they have a year of control before he can walk a teams leverage is a lot different than 5-6 years of control. But don’t let a fact stop your argument lol

2) why was draisatl “worth far more at the time they signed”? He was .72 ppg after 3 seasons (191gp) at the time he signed. Mackinnon was at .70ppg after 218 games when he signed. They look at their whole body of work, not just the last 70-80 games when committing for 8 years. If they didn’t, marner has 80 pts in his last 60 games, that makes him on mcdavid pace and leafs will give him $13.5 because it’s a year later by your logic, right? Lol

So make your points, but consider that when you call someone ill informed, especially after saying that Evander Kane and William Nylander are similar players. regardless of the UFAvsRFA thing, saying they are similar shows how much you are talking without actually watching any of the players. They are polar opposites besides the fact they line up on the wing at a faceoff lol.

24 Oct 2018 23:16:39
I think Draisaitl should have gotten 7.5 and if Chiarelli was a good GM he would’ve used the guys you mentioned as comparables and signed him to a deal around 6.75. And if that was the case he’d be on an amazing deal like the others you mentioned. Most of those guys are worth way more.

Also how much did the cap go up between these contracts? That’s a big factor.

Draisaitl has two 70+ point seasons, 16 points in 13 playoff games and he has 8 points in 7 games so far this season. Needs more consistency but he deserves to get paid IMO.

25 Oct 2018 00:37:54
Yes ebs and the thought of a possible 1/2 punch down the middle comparable to pittsburgh was probably intriguing enough to chirelli at the time he didn't want to negotiate too hard and cause a situation like we are seeing with nylander.

25 Oct 2018 00:49:37
I think you are putting a little too much emphasis on RFA and UFA in these comparisons.
Would you think Mathews should get less than Tavares then? Tavares numbers way better than Mathews leading up to contracts but Toronto holds all the nagotiatong power with Mathews, so he should be signed to less than Tavares, right? Toronto has all the power there.
I'm at least trying to compare wingers to wingers and centers to centers.

25 Oct 2018 00:57:07
All I was getting at with E. Kane is that he is a top 6 winger, who's looked upon as teams secondary scoring and just signed recently. I would compare that to Nylander, a top 6 winger looked upon for secondary scoring on his team.
That's all. You're reading too much into that. They are similar importance to their team and close in position and output. And will be around the same price range.
And I've said numerous times, I wish we had Drai at about $7.75M. But its not the end of the world.
I'm more worried about giving Benning, Drake, Koslinen, Russell, Kassian all $500K (at least) too much.

25 Oct 2018 02:02:39
Negotiating is his job lol saying he ‘didn’t want to negotiate too hard’ to sign his players cheaper is not a flattering trait of a GM. Now they’re capped out and missed the playoffs and lacking depth after a cpl players. Having a player sit out to a few games to get him signed cheaper pays off over 6,7 and 8 years. Ask Calgary with gaudreau and Anaheim with Rakell. If they just said “I don’t want to negotiate, give Johnny $8 mill” or Rakell $5.5mill their team gets worse instead of $6.75 and $3.9 or whatever. But that’s probably wrong somehow too lol.

25 Oct 2018 02:24:24
Also draisatl was 11.33% of the cap on the day he signed. Mackinnon was 8.63%, so the cap going up was not the difference either.

25 Oct 2018 10:48:58
Jim you take things too serious man I'm not saying your wrong lol all the players you mentioned support your case are there players you could have picked that would fall on draisitils side? Yes but who really cares. I said he's over paid isn't that what your implying too? In his defence I will say this I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the best of him yet and to even produce as we'll as he did last year on a really bad team was still pretty good.

I'll ask you this and not to start a whole big thing but tavares in 4 years at 11 mil or draisitl in 4 years at 8.5 who would be the safer pick? And I know it's not fair to compare contracts due to ufa/ rfa that's not what I'm getting at. Just wondering if you could admit drasistil s contract still has the potential to look pretty good in a couple years.

25 Oct 2018 10:49:35
Also drasistil mcdavid = 21 mil which is right around what matthews and marner are going to be next year if not more so there is going to be about 6 years of which duo would you rather have starting pretty soon so it's no need for everyone to get too wrapped up in any of those players contracts yet lol.

25 Oct 2018 13:25:07
Ya but McKinnon didn't even have a 60 point season before his deal and Drai had a 77 point season. W. T. F. Man? McKinnon has a 93 point season AFTER signing his extension. What don't you understand about that?

25 Oct 2018 13:28:40
So if Driasitl was %11.3 coming off a 77 point season and McKinnon was %8.6 without even hitting a 60 point season.
Isn't what justified? Why would Drai accept the same
Deal as McKinnon when his numbers were better.

25 Oct 2018 15:11:43
@habby, I agree Draisaitls deal might look good down the road. There’s a chance for sure. I’m just saying that managers don’t look at only the last season when deciding what a player is. They look at a whole body of work. He had a decent season and a real good season leading up to that contract. Then they paid him too dollar based off the good season. But overall body of work, Leon and mackinnon were within two one hundredths of a point amd he got $2.2mill more lol the mackinnon one is a steal, the draisatl one might look good one day before it’s Done.

If that doesn’t speak to the job a manager has done to limit risk for his team, I don’t know what does. Again, I haven’t said a bad word about draisatl as a player. I like him. And I never blame a guy for getting paid, but it’s not a crime to criticize the manager that overpaid him. People hated Phaneuf in Toronto because he was overpaid. Blame the manager that gave it to him, not him for cashing the Cheques.

Also the Tavares vs draisatl one in 4 years is an interesting take for sure. I still keep catching myself thinking JT is older than he is. He just turned 28 this month but I always feel like he’s older because he’s been around so long it seems. So at 31-32 years old, I still expect him to be a very elite player and draisatl to be on that cusp. My opinion, but $2.5mill difference? We will have to see.

25 Oct 2018 15:12:55
@yupp, were his numbers better? Yes, By two one hundredths of a point lol they were better. And you keep saying mackinnon never hit 60 pts. He did, as an 18 year old.

Over 3 seasons, draisatl put up .02 points per game better and played with mcdavid for his only real good year. Mackinnon did it, all at a year younger, with Matt Duchene as the best player he had to play with.

See if dubas pays marner $13 mill because all they look at is his last 70 games playing with a star centre. If that’s what marner makes, you are right.

25 Oct 2018 16:31:22
Lol. ok seems like this might just go on and on in circles. I'm done with ya on this topic. Can't wait for Marner and Mathews deals. Good luck to the Leafs this year Jim Bud.

25 Oct 2018 20:41:45
They don't always look at the players full body of work. A lot of players have been paid big contracts over the years based almost completely on 1 season. I always felt what give draisitl an extra 1 million per on his deal was the fact he dominated for the oilers in the playoffs that year and out played mcdavid in the playoffs. I also think he was 8th in league scoring that season and looked to be getting better every game. so I'd be suprised if his agent didn't ask for 9 or 10 mil actually.

23 Oct 2018 13:20:19
Colorado Avalanche are tied with Nashville for tops team on the league right now but %60 of their goals this season have come from one line, Landerskog, Mackinnin, Rantanen. Is lack of secondary scoring for the Aves a concern for the rest of the season? Is this just a hot streak?

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Oct 2018 15:03:32
It’s hard to ride one line that long to make the playoffs and compete but on the other hand, Boston did it last year with Bergeron, pasta and Marchand so who knows.

23 Oct 2018 16:21:26
There 2nd line production hasn't been too bad it's just their bottom 6 have done nothing offensively. Varlamov has been lights out too. So that has helped a lot. I think they will squeeze into the playoffs.

23 Oct 2018 19:10:09
Varley looks like he is going for the Vez this year!

24 Oct 2018 22:06:27
I hope so, they were a fun team to watch last year and it’s always good for the game to have the young stars in the playoffs. Like hall and Mack last year. Hopefully both are in again and leafs and oilers can get back in for Matthews and mcdavid. That’s when the leagues at its best.

20 Oct 2018 16:28:46
I just saw a comparison over the first 3 seasons of Draisaitl and Nylander. It’s eerily similar which is probably why Nylander is hanging onto his $8-8.5mill demand.

Draisaitl Nylander
GP 191 185
Goals. 50 (.26) 48 (.26)
Assists. 87 (.46) 87 (.47)
Pts. 137 (.72) 13 (.73)
PIM. 44 46


Looking at those numbers, I can understand why he wants Draisatl's contract. The problem with it is that’s one almost exact comparable making that much. There’s 6-7 guys with similar but not exact numbers (some better some slightly worse) in the $6-7 mill range. He’s picking the exception to the rule as the rule.

With Draisaitl, Chiarelli paid Mcdavid $12.5 mill, then asked Draisaitl to take $6.5. That was a mistake. Mcdavid had a blank cheque and a year left. Draisaitl was an RFA. He should have dealt with Draisaitl first because Mcdavid's wasn’t changing. That’s what Dubas is doing. He knows he’s going to pay Matthews basically whatever he wants. So he will hold off on those negotiations until he signs Nylander and probably marner.

Agree3 Disagree5

20 Oct 2018 17:10:00
Drai plays center and have a great playoffs. Also is the highest scorer now in his draft class two points ahead of winger Pasternak. Drai also has back to back 70+ point seasons. Also was top 10 in scoring one year.
But I do wish he was $7.5M tho. But the two years and playoffs he had he wasn't a whole $5M worth less than McDavid.
Nylander as a winger is worth $7M IMO. He can ask for $8.5M while the team offers $6M. That happens all the time. Then settle in the middle at around $7M. But I think Dubas is playing hard ball because Marner and Maythews nagotiations are coming up right away as well so this is a big test and example.

20 Oct 2018 19:27:11
Nylanders comparables would be Patsernak and E. Kane in my opinion. But Psternak deal is a year or two old and we all know deals get bigger overtime and E. Lane just signed for $7M which is slightly higher than Pasternak and I even think Pasta is worth at least $7M but he took a little less because they were comparing him to his teammates Marchand and Bergeron which wasn't fair to him in my opinion. Pasta is worth $7M - $7.5M.

You can't compare Nylander to Drai because of position and previous points in seasons.
Nylander is worth E. Kane $7M to me.

Which then what would that make Marner worth as a winger as well? Ow much more is he worth than Nylander?

20 Oct 2018 20:44:43
@yupp. I agree with a lot of that. However Nylander is capable of playing centre, just hasn’t had too as we have always had centres (Matthews, Kadri, bozak and now tavares) . Plus one of Leon’s 70+ seasons was after he got the big money and the other one he wasn’t playing centre on his own line full time, a lot was riding shotgun with Mcdavid, much like Nylander has done with Matthews.

20 Oct 2018 21:57:25
Ok sure. It you can't pay someone for something they "could do" or "haven't done yet".

20 Oct 2018 23:56:26
Also evander Kane as a UFA isn’t a comparable because he could field offers from 31 teams, Nylander can from 1. It would have to be an RFA contract with equal leverage to Nylander to be fair. Pasternak is the obvious one for sure. And marner is going to get atleast $1 mill more than Nylander, and probably more because he’s impressing while Nylander is sulking. Kypreos reported leafs now offered a 4 year deal at less than $20 mill total.

20 Oct 2018 23:53:57
Nylander for a not great right handed defenseman and maybe a 3rd rd pick he is literally sitting at home losing all his value.

21 Oct 2018 01:00:12
So are you saying Toronto should pay him the center premium for simply being able to possibly play center with no proof that he can in the NHL yet and no 70 point seasons? I used Kane contract as a comparable because that's a similar skill set and position but would still take Kane or Psternak over Nylander all day long.

21 Oct 2018 02:36:19
Nylander does not compare to Evander Kane. I mean, Kane is power forward and natural goal scorer: a real heavy hitter capable of hitting 30+ goals annually.

Nylander is soft.

21 Oct 2018 08:39:52
I’m not saying leafs should pay Nylander the centre premium lol If you have seen any of my comments on Nylander I’ve said he’s worth $6.5-6.75 max.

What I’m saying is that Draisaitl got the centre premium while his best production came as a winger with mcdavid (like Nylanders with Matthews) and that’s why he’s the only guy in that price range.

Mackinnon, scheifele, Gaudreau, Pasternak and ehlers, all got $6-6.75 mill. Draisaitl is not as good as atleast 3, probably 4 of those guys while making $2+ mill more. I’m not saying pay Nylander Draisaitl money. I’m saying the exact opposite. Draistal is a good player but severely overpaid. He should be in the $6.5-$7mill range too.

21 Oct 2018 13:41:24
Times of those deals were well apart. Lol. Those deals are seals now because of when they were signed.
What a bad argument. Well Drai had a 70 point season and was top 10 in league scoring so if that's only worth $6.5-$7M on mcdavids wing as you say then Nylander on Mathews wing with only 60 points is far less than what you say Nylander is worth around $6.5-6.7M using your logic there.

Schiffle and McKinnons deals were how many years before Drais? You do know contracts have been getting bigger as years pass. And for the record, I've always said I wish Drai was $7.5, $8M Max. But he's not over $4M worse than McDavid. Same thing that's going to happen with Marner and Mathews. Their seasons point totals aren't what McDavid and Drai had had for two years 100+ and 70+ back to back. But Marner shouldn't get anything less than $4M less than Mathews.
Nylander can ask for whatever he wants all day especially if he thinks he's being low balled. Then settle in the middle. I don't believe Ny actually wants $8.5M but thinks he's worth more than what the leafs are offering and wants about $7-7.5M.

21 Oct 2018 13:44:01
Back to back 70+ point seasons and a great playoffs gets you paid. It's just the way things are in the NHL now. That's not far fetched. Look at Tom Efin Wilson. Career goals 35. Career games suspended 29. And he gets $5.5M a year for 6 years with most of it GTD and a NTC. All because of one good playoff run.

21 Oct 2018 16:12:51
@ yup,
Just so you’re aware, drasisatl's contract was only signed 13 months after mackinnon and Scheifeles. Nylanders now would be 15-16 months after Draisaitl's. So you're being pretty condescending calling that a dumb argument. "How many years before draisatls?" One! Lol July 2016 they both signed and Draisaitl signed August 2017. Now Nylander October 2018. What’s your point again? Lol

Also monahan was July 2016, Gaudreau was September 2016 and pasta September 2017 and ehlers was October 2017. So of the 6 examples I gave, they are all really good forwards, some just wingers, Some c/ w and a cpl natural centres, coming of ELCs. They all signed within 1-13 months of draisatl and none of them broke $7 million. How is draisatl at $8.5 mill not overpaid in the market?!?! Lol

And you can absolutely pay for what hasn’t been done yet, but those guys on that list were paid for future potential as well, still make far less and some (mackinnon, scheifele, pasta) have accomplished more than draisatl since.

How long ago did you think mackinnon signed?! He’s only a year older than Leon.

21 Oct 2018 18:36:43
McKinnon went 52, 53, 97 in points last three seasons. Talk about lucking out on that contract hey. Lol.
So McKinnon was signed after 52, 53 point seasons.
Drai was signed after a 77 point season and 16 points in 13 playoff games as a center on his own line, top ten in scoring. Again, I wish Drai was $7.5M.

And Again, Nylander has two 60 points seasons as a winger.

You say Nylander is worth $6.5-6.75M as a winger with Mathews? With no proof that he can play center at the NHL level and you say Drai is only with $6.5-7M with two 70+ point season, a season in top 10 league scoring and 16 points in 13 playoff games on two series, and proof he can play and is a center, You think those two players are only $250,000 apart? Crazy.
Literally what you have said in this thread.

21 Oct 2018 18:47:40
I'd be careful with your whining here because rumor has it Marner is going to get $8-9M and he hasn't had 70 point season yet. Hopefully he gets there this year, and if he does then should him as a winger be worth as much as Drai as a center looking at first three full seasons point totals?
Marner 61, 69,?
Drai 51, 77, 70

Mathews will want more than Tavares and as much as McDavid, How far behind Mathews is Marner? He isn't $5M worse than Mathews is he? No. Just like Drai isn't $5M worse than McDavid.
Mathews $12-$12.5M
Tavares $11M
Marner $8-8.5M
Nylander? $6-7M

Gonna need some D to help out all that expensive offense. Shutout and 1 goal in back to back losses, Can't go on a crazy steak all season.
And ya I'm well aware of my teams tough start and issues don't worry.

What's Reilly going to want in a few years. $10M?
Kapanen. F. Anderson in a few years. Gardiner after this season.

I would worry about your own teams cap problems right now and the very near future buddy.

21 Oct 2018 19:38:08
Habby did you change your name to yupp?

22 Oct 2018 00:10:47
I’m not whining about a cap problem. I’m saying Nylander isn’t worth $8.5 mill like everyone else has said haha you try telling me that mackinnon and scheifele signed years before draisatl and that’s why they make less. Then when that is shown to be very wrong, now it’s just luck lol okay.

22 Oct 2018 02:40:41
No, Nylander isn't worth $8.5M if that's what he's asking. But we all know that if he player feels they are being low balled by the organization then they ask high, to settle somewhere in the middle. So if the Leafs are offering $6M and he feels he's worth more than he'll ask for a lot more then Hopefully settle somewhere above the $6M. If he actually thinks with only two 60 point seasons he's worth $8.5M then he's an idiot.

But again. McKinnon signed his deal coming off of a 52 and 53 point season with one season a few before that at 63. Drai was coming off of a 77 point season which was top ten In league scoring and had 16 points in 13 playoff games driving his own line as center, not on mcdavids wing. At the times they signed their deals, according to numbers there, Drai was worth more.
And yes is it a lucky great contract that McKinnon has a 92 point season after signing that deal, that's fantastic. Too bad for him it's a year late. What a great contract if he keeps that up. Colorado didn't pay for something that he "could have" be able to do.

With all the numbers I've provided and proven for you one thing still stands out for me is that you said Deai worth $7M and Nylander with $6.5-6.75M. That they are only $250,000 apart. That's crazy man. Do you actually believe that?

22 Oct 2018 02:53:06
All I know. everyone not names McDavid is grossly overpaid.
If Mathews gets what he gets. it's just wrong.

22 Oct 2018 18:59:44
Mcdavid, Tavares, Kane, Toews, Price, kopitar, Eichel, ovechkin, Malkin, Benn, Crosby, Subban, Perry (Seguin/ kucherov/ doughty starring next year) are the only players making more than draisatl. Nothing special there, just perennial all stars, cup champions, 50 goal scorers, hart trophies, Norris trophies, selkes, rocket Richards, people in the best player in the world conversations. Why wouldn’t a really good 2nd line Center be there with them lol.

22 Oct 2018 19:00:47
And do I think Nylander is only wprth 250k less than draisatl? No. But if draisatl gets $2+ mill more than mackinnon, scheifele etc “because salaries went up so much” over the 13 months between those signings, then the 15 months between Leon and Nylander signings should close that gap too right? Or does that only work for Chiarelli?

22 Oct 2018 19:23:39
You know he is going to ask for it and more Sosa. that deal is 2 years old i think and the cap has raised twice since then. I would hope that he signs for 11.5 so he is just a bit above Tavares, but that won't happen. 12.5 minimum i bet. And McDavid didn't ask for the max. which i believe is based off of a % of the total cap.

22 Oct 2018 20:05:05
Lol. Your hate is really coming in strong on this one. Really reaching now bringing all those other guys into it when they were signed years before. Too funny.

So you said Drai only worth $7M and Nylander worth $6.75M. But now you're back tracking and saying you didn't mean it?

And once again, McKinnon signed his deal after 52 and 53 point seasons. Then all of a sudden shot up to 97 after the contract.
Drai signed his deal after a 77 point season and 16 points in 13 playoff games as a center on his own line, helped big time almost win two playoff series. So at the time they signed their deals, according to this numbers, Drai was worth more, AT THE TIME THEY SIGNED THEIR EXTENSIONS, Not now, things change and now some deals look like absolute steals. Drai still followed it up with another 70 point season mainly as center of his own line.

22 Oct 2018 20:07:45
Lmao. What? Benn, Eichel, Subban, Price, Seguin haven't won a cup. What's eichel done? Drai had more points than him when he was 10th in league scoring and eichel was 11th. Why don't you whine about Sabres GM giving him so much?
Why don't you argue about all the other little contracts Chiarelli has overpaid for by $500K - $1M. I know them.


I can't wait for Mathews and Marners contracts to come in to look at the numbers. You're going to back track so Efin bad it's going to be hilarious.

22 Oct 2018 20:29:47
Nylanders Last two seasons before this extension are actually better than McKinnons two seasons before he signed his extension. Lol.

23 Oct 2018 14:45:40
Okay, listen. All I said was Nylander isn’t worth $8.5 mill. Neither is Drasaitl. Is he worth more than Nylander? Yes! Lol where is this hate?! I like draistal. In that draft year, he’s the guy I wanted on the leafs for that whole season but obliviously went before. However that doesn’t mean I think he’s worth $8.5 mill.

And mackinnon had 63 pts as an 18 year old. Draisatl didn’t do that till he was 21. You keep talking about Leon’s 16 pts in 13 playoff games as a 21 year old. Mackinnon has 10 pts in 7 playoff games as an 18 year old. Is mackinnon on a great contract? Yes, absolutely. But quit talking like they got lucky signing him and then he became good lol you talk like he’s Jamie Benn, a 5th rounder that wins an Art Ross and shocks the world.

He was a 1st overall pick who dominated junior and then stepped right into the NHL and produced. They knew how good of a player they had right away lol they didn’t get lucky with this kid and that was his market value a year before Leon signed. Market Value didn’t rise that much from July 2016 to August 2017.

What’s more likely: that Chairelli paid proper value on draisatl and the GM of those 6 other teams all ripped off their player? Or that one guy got it wrong and the other 6 paid proper market value?

23 Oct 2018 14:46:53
I have no reason to hate on the oilers lol I like a lot of their players, they have zero rivalry with the leafs, I have family that lives there and I’ve been to their games a few times. Have a Ryan Smyth jersey on my wall in the bar from when I met him at a golf tourney (was one of my favourites growing up) and cheered for them to the finals in 2006 and cheered for them after leafs were knocked out in 2017.

That doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be critical of a GMs decisions though lol you should be a politician. As soon as I say a manager made a mistake it means I hate the whole organization? You could work for Justin Trudeau, as soon as someone calls him out for a bonehead move, just call them a racist or sexist with no info and call it a day lol.

23 Oct 2018 14:47:36
And I never said every one of those players had a cup lol read it again. But Benn has an Art Ross, subban has a Norris, Price has a Vezina, Hart lol Eichel probably is overpaid, but Nylander isn’t asking for Eichel money, he’s asking for draisatl money. That’s why I didn’t care if he’s overpaid, it wasn’t relevant to the original post. I was comparing draisatl and Nylander who have virtually identical numbers.

24 Oct 2018 22:09:37
Also before they each signed those contracts, mackinnon had 153pts in 218 games (.70ppg) splitting as a centre/ winger. Draisatl had 137 pts in 191 career games (.72ppg) as a centre/ winger. So the “Draisatl was worth far more at the time they signed” thing is a joke too. They are within .02 points per game, at the same point in their careers and that’s worth $2.2 mill/ season more over an 8 year term?! Lol and career playoff points at that point which you keep talking about with draisatl: Leon 1.23ppg, Mack 1.43ppg. And you keep saying I’m reaching? come on.

25 Oct 2018 00:22:30
That is true jim but look at both players point totals the season before they signed their deals. That combined with the increase in cap at least makes up for some of the difference in the amount they each got.

25 Oct 2018 00:58:09
Habby he's got his hate tunnel visioned turned right up. I'm giving up even talking to the guy soon.

26 Oct 2018 22:40:56
It’s not tunnel vision hate though yupp. I don’t care to argue anymore about it either, but like I have said, i like Edmonton as a whole, I like draisatl as a player. But it’s not a crime to criticize the job Chiarelli has done there. Of the big moves he’s made, he’s on the wrong end of almost every one. I hate the job he has done there because they should be a top team every year and they aren’t. But I don’t hate the city, the players, the coach or the fans of Edmonton. I think he’s done a terrible job for them though.

 


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