NHL talk 5

 

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22 Feb 2019 03:29:40
What would the oilers be willing to add to Lucic to take on Kovlachuk just curious? Nurse? Puljujarvi And a 1st? Bouchard?

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22 Feb 2019 05:28:40
I wouldn't add any of those young players for a 35 year old who is clearly on the decline.

23 Feb 2019 16:41:19
Lmao. None of the above.

21 Feb 2019 15:28:19
I don't know why my posts regarding whether or not don cherry should retire never gets posted

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21 Feb 2019 16:51:40
He has the old man, no filter problem. I liked him years ago but it’s been a long time since he’s had anything good to say. Time to retire.

21 Feb 2019 17:39:58
Hes an icon., and deserves to go out in his terms .

21 Feb 2019 19:09:43
I don't even mind his opinions, a lot of the times I don't agree but it is his opinion. It's just he can barely speak a complete sentance now. In all honesty if a person watched him for the first time Saturday night they wouldn't have a clue what he's talking about. I think he should be replaced with brian burke.

22 Feb 2019 12:04:12
He is borderline incoherent at this point.

22 Feb 2019 14:50:31
He is really. Next time you watch or hear him talking just make an effort to notice how many mistakes and how many times you have to finish his sentences cause you know what he's trying to say. Mainly cause he's been saying the same things for the last 30 years.

22 Feb 2019 15:32:23
Yeah and calling the Hurricanes players Jerks was a bit much. What they are doing is unorthodox, or could even be considered embarrassing, but it’s not hurting anyone either.

23 Feb 2019 02:08:17
Yeah I don't like what the hurricanes are doing but it doesn't make them jerks. Childish maybe.

21 Feb 2019 06:02:08
Leafs really need to add some toughness/sandpaper at least two players. Gudas and Simmons on the leafs would definitely fit that bill...trading Gardiner for a 1st anywhere can really make it happen. Gardiner does more damage then good

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21 Feb 2019 17:18:58
If Gardiner does more damage than good when would a team give a first for him? Gardiner is the Leafs 3rd best Dman, I can’t see them moving him while trying to compete this year.

21 Feb 2019 20:55:03
Gardiner is gone.

21 Feb 2019 23:41:15
Gardiner isn't worth a 1st.

22 Feb 2019 02:46:16
Gardiner is not worth a 1st. Would a contending team pay that, possibly? They better let him walk next year. He makes some great stretch passes and gets the puck to the net but the leafs need steady defenseman. He’s not as bad as some people make him out to be but he can be hard to watch some nights.

22 Feb 2019 06:02:14
Pk subban was hard to watch a lot of nights in montreal too. Funny thing hapoened when he left he magically turned into the best dman of all time lol.

22 Feb 2019 14:14:04
I haven’t seen much of Subban but I’m sure he’s still questionable defensively. It’s just the people on this site that will magically think Gardiner is the best of all time once traded.

22 Feb 2019 14:56:52
That's what I mean leafs17 he will instantly move up in rank as soon as he leaves. one thing I will say about gardiner is I believe if he was paired with the right type of partner he would look a lot better defensively. solid player IMO.

22 Feb 2019 20:34:51
Yes Gardiner would look good with a stay at home defenseman. Could you imagine if Gardiner went to Winnipeg? I know a couple people around here that would think he is a god.

21 Feb 2019 00:52:53
I'm surprised Washington waived Smith-Pelly. A veteran that can skate and is physical. I think he had good playoffs too. I hope the leafs claim him.

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21 Feb 2019 02:58:02
He can be damn lazy. I remember when Habs had him, was always expecting so much more.

21 Feb 2019 05:16:29
Yeah he plays 10 good games a year.

21 Feb 2019 06:04:28
But 7 clutch goals last playoffs, should count for something.

21 Feb 2019 13:04:15
His 7 goals counted last year. he had one good stretch of hockey in his career. I wouldn't count on DSP to be a goal scorer. however, since you can claim him off waivers, maybe it's worth adding him incase y have injury issues. jus not sure what his salary cap hit is.

21 Feb 2019 00:41:25
Coyle to boston. Perfect pick up for the bruins IMO.

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21 Feb 2019 02:58:54
Well after years of speculation, he's not going to be Hab. lol. but yes, he suits Bruins well.

21 Feb 2019 03:35:44
F’n Bruins.

21 Feb 2019 05:17:10
I think het fits in with boston better then he would with the habs.

21 Feb 2019 13:05:17
I do as well Habby.

21 Feb 2019 00:24:31
With minny trading away coyle I wonder if
Wild are giving up on the year and unloading some assets. If that's the case what would it take for the leafs or oilers to land dumba? If it was a hockey trade I'd say nylander from the leafs, most will say a overpayment from leafs but to get what you need you may have to overpay and it may be a slight overpayment but considering both of their ages and contracts I'd donor for the leafs.

Oilers probably have to give Hopkins and maybe a small add like benson or bear or something. I know most poker fans would say the bear is going to be a good player and whatever but if you could have dumba, a proven nhler with reasonable term left not to mention shows mcdavid and others (fans) that losing is no longer acceptable

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21 Feb 2019 03:00:51
I don't think Minny moves on from a guy like Dumba.

21 Feb 2019 03:37:59
I think most would say not enough from the leafs mertle.

21 Feb 2019 21:41:55
I agree Sosa, dumba isn’t a guy they should move, but with them trading Nino and now coyle one has to think there might be a rebuild coming and s guy like dumba would bring in a very good return. I wasn’t necessarily propositing that minnybtrade dumba just if anyone else thought maybe they were heading in that direction of a total tear down and rebuild.

20 Feb 2019 22:10:30
This is meant as discussion, but @memarcusjoe commented that often, rentals do not pull in top prospects+firsts, etc. Here are some of the most recent 'Big Fish' trade deadline moves [Past 5 Years, or so]

2014: Matt Moulson [Flipped for 2 2nds], 2014 1st, 2015 2nd for Thomas Vanek.

2015: John Moore, Anthony Duclair [Top 20-30 Prospect at the time], 2016 1st, 2015 2nd for Keith Yandle.

2015: Roland McKewon [Decent Prospect at the time], 2015 1st for Andrej Sekera.

2015: Brendan Leispic [Decent Prospect at the time], 2015 1st, Olli Jokinen [Sent to STL for a 6th and Joakim Lindstrom] for Mike Santorelli and Cody Franson.

2015: 2015 1st [Matt Barzal], Rob Klinkhammer for David Perron.

2016: Kris Versteeg for Valentin Zykov [Arguably a highly touted prospect, and regardless, Versteeg was basically a nobody - earlier in the season, he was sent to CAR as a cap dump, and he brought back a pretty good prospect]

2016: Marko Dano, 2016 1st, 2016 2nd for Andrew Ladd [Dano was a pretty good prospect at the time, he was the second big piece in the original Saad to CBJ trade (Anisimov and Dano for Saad)

2017: Jonathan Dahlen for Alex Burrows

2017: Grayson Downing, 2017 1st, 2018 2nd, 2019 4th for Martin Hanzal.

2018: Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller for Vlad Namestnikov [who was having an excellent season], Libor Hajek, Brett Howden, 2018 1st, 2019 2nd [which could become a 1st]

2018: Evander Kane for Danny O'Reagan, 2019 1st.

2018: Paul Stastny for Erik Foley and 2018 1st.

2018: Rick Nash for Ryan Spooner, Matt Beleskey [50% Retained], Ryan Lindgren, 2018 1st, 2019 7th.

All I can say is, a lot of these were guys who were having pretty decent years [Usually 0.7PPG, potentially higher] who were traded for at bare minimum, a 1st and some decent prospect[s]. If you guys want to compare Stone to Andrew Ladd, Paul Stastny or Rick Nash, it basically sums up why your proposals aren't 'up-to-par'. Both Stone and Duchene - as well as Panarin and Bob, are unlike anyone we've seen traded at the deadline in a while. The closest comparisons, imo, are the Yandle/ McDonagh deals. Yandle wasn't as good as Stone, but had the term, which compensated, and he brought back a young 4-5 d in Moore, an arguably top 30 prospect in Duclair and a 1st. That's basically, in todays terms, something like Vesalianen, 1st and a guy like Brandon Tanev or so.

Or, we look at the McDonagh trade, again, McD has the extra year, but I'd argue that Stone, with his defensive play and being a PPG on OTT is a better player. However, just for reasons sake, let's take out the conditional 2nd, which could become a 1st. Now we have Brett Howden, Libor Hajek and a guaranteed 1st [Miller for Vlad was essentially a swap at the time] for McD. This translates, roughly, to Sami Niku, 2019 1st and Mason Appleton.

And even if you take the Rick Nash trade - Spooner was swapped for Beleskey's cap dump, fine. Then you have Lindgren and a 1st, which is basically Logan Stanley and a 1st. But realistically, Mark Stone is much, much, much better than an aging Rick Nash, so you ave to at least add on an extra 1st, or some prospects.

Additionally, if a guy like Pinball posted, 'Fred Gauthier, Garrett Sparks, Jeremy Bracco and a 1st for Mark Stone', a lot of people, would be bashing him, and so should they, because that doesn't come close to acquiring Mark Stone.

However, you [@MMJ and @IJ] shouldn't be saying that the Jets can't trade Niku or so for Stone while saying that the Leafs have to part with Sandin/ Liljegren.

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21 Feb 2019 05:23:01
If I'm Ottawa I'm making sure I get a good return for both. if winnipeg doesn't want to pay it someone else will. Chevy doesn't really like giving up youth for players as much as some gms but if he's in on stone the price has got to be a top prospect a 1st and another player/ prospect at least.

21 Feb 2019 15:22:32
I think you kind of answered your own question here, with the amount of household names contained in the prospect packages above. All the prospects listed above were B/ C prospects. The only guys who returned more were players with term.

From your examples above you can clearly see that a pure rental almost never returns grade A prospects. Sure there are always GM's that make bad trades trying to save their jobs.

As I said before, if you are willing to throw away a top prospect for 2 months of a player that from historic evidence on improves your Cup chances by 1 or 2%, great. If other fans are more savvy and won't do it, great.

Will Chevy end up giving a top prospect for a rental? Maybe, if he really thinks it's worth it and probably only if he thinks he has a very good chance at re-signing him.

Overall, I'm not too concerned about what Ottawa wants, just what I'm willing to give. If we get Stone we get him, if we don't, we don't.

21 Feb 2019 22:18:32
The problem is, Andrew Ladd, Rick Nash, Martin Hanzal, Paul Stastny, Evander Kane and Cody Franson aren't really household names. They were either playing really well [Franson], were extremely coveted [Hanzal, Ladd], were aging [Nash, Stastny, Ladd] or were playing poorly [Kane].

Comparatively, Stone is young, extremely coveted and playing really well. There is a difference between him and the previous guys. Its unfair to label his return as similar to those. That's why, I think Yandle's trade was a fair benchmark - Stone is better than Yandle, but Yandle had term.

22 Feb 2019 04:42:34
I meant that the prospects dealt for the rentals weren't household names. In other words B prospects, or former A's (Duclair) that were clearly longshots to develop into anything much.

19 Feb 2019 06:15:13
Pretty sure john chayka won't be in the running for GM of the year.

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19 Feb 2019 06:13:25
I think kucherov now has the most points through his teams first 60 games since the mario lemieux days. Maybe jagr had more too but I'm pretty sure it's the most since those guys.

Agree1 Disagree2

19 Feb 2019 14:59:19
Ya. I think he wants that scoring title. Lol. wow.

19 Feb 2019 17:15:51
It his to lose at this point.

17 Feb 2019 00:52:23
Kappa kakko is slowly closing the gap on jack hugues.top spot isn't clear cut anymore IMO

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17 Feb 2019 10:47:57
KK also has a way cooler name.

17 Feb 2019 16:01:02
Yes but auto correct doesn't seem to want to spell it right lol. Kappo.

17 Feb 2019 17:00:28
I wish mtl would of sucked this year and drafted him lol.

17 Feb 2019 17:41:32
We'll if we lose the rest of the games from here on we should still have a chance.

 


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