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31 Jul 2017 14:07:38
With the recent Markov loss, many people thing MB is doing something extremely wrong, but others think he saved the cap space to make a "big move". This is what I'm thinking:

Option 1: Offer sheeting Oilers Leon Draisaitl for 6-8 mil for the next 3-4 yrs. (most likely)

Edmonton just singed McJesus, and is running out of cap space. MB has the space and needs a #1 centre.

Option 2: Tavares trade (unlikely)

Thoughts? Bergevin has to have a reason for keeping the cap space and releasing a kind of player like Markov.

FortX

1.) 31 Jul 2017 14:48:21
Its going to take more than 6 to 8 million to get Drais.
Personally think Bergevin jus thought all was good, Radulov, Markov woulda re signed at reasonable rates. and well , he deffinetly dropped he ball on that. I think he's in trouble, and should be.


2.) 31 Jul 2017 15:24:29
If draisatls offer sheet is 6-8 mill and only 3-4 years it will be matched 100%. Oilers can be 10% (7.5mill) over the cap till the season starts. They would match it and then sort out the cap. From the habs petspective, when you offer sheet someone, as much as it's fair and in the rules, you make enemies and rustle feathers. After spending so long waiting for a number one centre, oilers will be just as pissed if you offer sheet him for 2 years or 8. You're going to pay the price regardless, might as well try for 7-8 years and solve that problem for the next while.


3.) 31 Jul 2017 15:43:25
Actually I just think he decided not to sign markov because he wasn't worth what he was asking. He's old and slowing down by the game.


4.) 31 Jul 2017 21:40:44
I have zero hope that anything will come for Montreal in the rest of this offseason, MB is going to sit on his hands and the season will go to the dogs.


5.) 31 Jul 2017 21:40:55
He was deffinetly asking for to much. amd yes he's getting old, but I don't think anyone other than Petry is any faster than Markov. not saying he was the answer, but this is a very slow D in a very fast league.


6.) 31 Jul 2017 22:09:53
Legitimate question: can a rational Habs fan please explain what is going on with their franchise? What is Bergevin's plan? After Radulov and Markov departing, what moves can the GM do to get them back into contention? Who will be their 1C?


7.) 01 Aug 2017 02:56:55
Ill do my best to be rational. Lol.

Bergevin crapped the bed big time. we have no number one center, UNLESS. 2 things happen. Julien let's Galchenyuk get one more shot at it. stick with him and let him learn, let him make mistakes., as long as he grows. and Galchenyuk has to really want it., and own it
As for contention, well we have Price, so we will contend for the playoffs. but not a championship.
There isn't enough assets to go get a proven number one center. , or a good skating puck moving Dman. if it wasnt for Price, wed only be contenders for 1st overall pick.
I think Bergevin is a good guy. but, its time for a change.


8.) 01 Aug 2017 03:48:47
I don't think any fan knows what a GM's plan is Easy E. I'm guessing he hoped he'd sign Radulov and Markov like Sosa said. It's going to be a lot of heavy lifting for Price, like usual. Maybe they come together and score some goals too, who knows.


9.) 01 Aug 2017 06:32:26
Sosa: thanks for your reply. Any ideas on a 1C fill in if Galchenyuk craps the bed? Could they trade for a 2C that could fill in for a 1C? When do you think owners will go for a rebuild? You're right, the Habs have almost zero assets besides picks.

Not today: very insightful (sarcastic) . For a halfway's intelligent person who follows hockey, one could make some very reasonable deductions about what a GMs plan is, especially if they say it outright. For example:

Philadelphia (my team) : rebuild on the fly, shed salary through trades without giving up picks, draft and build from the net out (confirmed via the last 4 drafts), now trade surplus veterans
Arizona: constant rebuild over, acquire veteran talent to be competitive, draft for depth
Pittsburgh Whiners: win now by diving
Tampa Bay: retain as many high skilled forwards as possible under the cap, inject youth on the blueline
Ottawa: win now by acquiring a 1C at the right price
Calgary: win arms race against Edmonton, be competitive now within Alberta, strengthen D corps
Vancouver: full rebuild
Los Angeles: shed as Brown and Gaborik contracts, re-tool on the fly
Vegas: build entirely through drafting, trade useful veterans at trade deadline for picks/ prospects, accept bad contracts with 2 years or less remaining

See how that works?


10.) 01 Aug 2017 07:27:11
Eazy. honestly can't see who they can get as a number one. my best guess is that they slot Danault into it by default. i like Danault. but as a 3rd line.2nd at best. as for a rebulid. I just don't see it happening. with all the success the Habs had way. way baxk in the day, unfortunatelytl the culture still remains win the cup now. The game has changed, the league. even the damn century has changed, bit for some reason the management has never really gone that route. They always put out a mediocre team that has decent spurts of success. gives us all hope, but then reality sets in. in all reality, if it wasnt for Patrick Roy, this team would not have won a cup since the 70's . its deffinetly time for a change in the way of thinking. but with Price resigned for 8 more, they aren't going to start rebuliding anytime soon.


11.) 01 Aug 2017 16:29:42
Can you actually get a top tier number one center these days without tanking and getting the 1st overall pick? very few if any teams have the assets to acquire one cause the teams that have them don't trade them. radulov was good last year but he wasn't good enough to justify the contract he was looking for. same goes for markov. we haven't had a number one center since Vincent damphousse lol. That's 25 years ago how long has bergevin been here? i personally like the moves the habs have made this year they got rid of a lot of dead wood and got a couple decent players back. maybe we should have traded price pacioretty galchenyuk etc and tanked for a few years and got a number one center like every other team that has one did. Would that have made people happy? If not maybe people should stop worrying it's going to give some of you ulcers. The team is at least as good as last year and if by some strange occurrence like the injury bug hits like it did a couple years ago the worst thing can happen is we will get a good draft pick they we can trade away for a top notch talent.


12.) 01 Aug 2017 16:34:36
It's funny how similar the Flyers and Habs are/ were. They have the highest regular season winning percentage out of the entire league since the Original Six era, although the Flyers' heartbreak in the Finals is legendary. I can totally see that culture in the Habs now that you mention it as it was exactly the same in Philly pre-Hextall. Thankfully we have an awesome GM who knows how to build a team and draft. For your sake, I hope you get a front office that recognizes the reality of the new NHL.


13.) 01 Aug 2017 20:03:24
Habby. I hope your right about this team being at least as good as last years. I personally don't see it. but. then again i'm probably wrong more than i am right.


14.) 01 Aug 2017 21:10:47
Lots of teams have #1 centres that weren't first overall picks. They can be acquired, but not when a GM spends the pieces necessary on more wingers. Ryan johansen is a young 6'4" #1 centre. He's not the superstar Crosby, mcdavid, Matthews type, but he's a #1 and a lot better than any the habs have had at that position in a long time. He was acquired for a real good young D man in Seth jones (sergachev +a bit?! ) Jamie benn was drafted in the 5th round. Tyler sequin was acquired for a package that turned out to be crap. Bergeron was a 2nd rounder, giroux a late first. It can be done, just need to be smart with your assets or find a gem in the draft. If drouin switches and becomes a #1 centre or a 35g 75pt winger, it was worth spending your best asset. If not, that was your chance at getting that 1C.


15.) 01 Aug 2017 22:05:53
EasyE, I do see how you've observed what some teams have been doing for the past few seasons. I also see that you read the news and how Vegas is building through the draft. Philly has been drafting d and goalies for years but once again, great observation. The future is a little trickier, especially when most GM's are tight lipped.


16.) 02 Aug 2017 00:06:14
Benn plays mostly left wing johannson got 8 mil a year for 14 goals lol. bergeron and giroux were drafted 10 plus years ago and seguin is getting helped big time by benn. you know as we'll as I do how difficult it is to acquire a legitimate no 1 center oh yeah wayne gretzky got traded too lol.


17.) 02 Aug 2017 02:21:32
You said the only way to get a good number one centre was to draft him first overall. I'm sure if Tavares signed with the habs next July you wouldn't count him as a number 1, right? I mean by then he will have been drafted 9 years ago. # 1 centre is subjective. But when your top centre is Phillip daneault, I would say duchene being on the market, the chance to have a johansen (8mill or not) should be appealing. You can put seguin down by saying he's being dragged along by benn, but if he was dealt to the habs you would call him the best player in the league and predict he will score 60 goals, so it's kind of a moot point to have a discussion with you.


18.) 02 Aug 2017 05:39:33
Ok now I see. Not only do you know everything about hockey you also know exactly what I would say about every situation. The point is moot I guess you know what I'm going to say before I even say it. but duchene is appealing if he could be had for what he's actually worth. but I wouldn't give up a lot for him. tbh I'm content for now with galchenyuk, daneult plekanec shaw at center. you saw my predictions of what I expected habs players to score I mean if I was as bad as you say I could have said that first line could score 150 goals this year.


19.) 02 Aug 2017 14:20:49
Just don't get why a guy drafted 10 years ago is a bad option for a number one centre when all the best players on your team are 27-33 years old. If you were asking how to get an 18 year old #1 centre that can play right away, yeah, tank and pick first. For the habs to get one in prime age to try and win with the core made up of price, weber, patches Alzner etc, use the assets carefully and acquire one. It can be done, it has been done in the last 3 years multiple times as I said Johansen and seguin.


20.) 02 Aug 2017 15:40:13
Yeah I guess the habs will just wait till another seguin type player falls out of favour with his current team and then trade for him. With regards to johansen I would have rather kept jones. i never said an older player drafted 10 years ago was a bad option but tell me old wise one who are all of these number one centers that are availible? And I mean this year. Not 3 or 5 or 10 years ago. there was nothing in the free agent market this year and I don't recall any being traded. also don't waste your time bringing up thorton or marleau.


21.) 02 Aug 2017 17:17:39
Duchene is available this year, as in right now. but habs wouldn't part with a package including sergachev at the deadline for him and then used sergachev for a winger which is what my point was all along. Misused assets happens every day, but that was the teams best asset.


22.) 02 Aug 2017 18:56:50
Jim how is it being misused I don't know about anyone else but right now I'd take drouin over duchene any day of the week. And who says bergevin is not still in on duchene. and before you start your big rant on how sergachev was the habs only trade chip try thinking up something original. plus if duchene continues on his downward spiral would he actually be a number 1 center? And before you say he'd still be the number 1 center on montreal try saying something original. truth is I'd sooner acquire a player on the rise like drouin or keep a player who is cheaper and will probably produce as much as duchene like galchenyuk. now if they could make up a package based around gallahger or some picks and prospects duchene might be worth taking a chance on. but I wouldn't let colorodo take advantage of me just cause they think we are desperate to acquire him. also I'm glad we got a gm who appears to feel the same way.


23.) 02 Aug 2017 20:52:45
Drouins a really good player, he might have a better career than duchene ever does. Just don't see habs needing the winger as much as a centre when one was available. Leafs did the same thing. Got an electrifying 21 year old winger on the rise in kessel and he was exciting and was the best player on the team for 6 years, but he cost valuable assets and they were still looking for the center they were missing since sundin. And kessel didn't make them any closer to winning. I see the same thing happening in MTL. I'm fine with them spinning their tires for 5 years like the leafs did though, hope it continues.


24.) 02 Aug 2017 21:08:53
Also you say #1 centers aren't available and then I give you the johansen one, and you say you would rather keep jones. So it's not that they're not out there, but you don't want to pay for one. Nashville has the best or second best top 4 d in the league without jones, why would they keep jones over addressing a #1 center problem. They dealt from a position of strength to fill a glaring hole in their lineup. that's proper asset management.


25.) 02 Aug 2017 23:51:30
My point was if we have to give up major parts of our core to aquire a player like duchene or even johansen I'd sooner stay pat. And like I said before I'm glad our gm appears to feel the same way. i mean I wouldn't be shocked if galchenyuk takes over the number one center spot this year and equals the production of both of those players. i think the problem with our convo is you think I'm one of those hab fans who can't sleep at night because I think we need to aquire a top notch center to be competitive. I can assure you I'm not. would it be nice to get a Tavares type player? Sure it would but realistically it isn't going to happen and we wouldn't have got that type of player for sergachev either. I mean you keep saying sergachev was our only trade chip to aquire a number one center but all you mention is duchene. And I've already told you I much prefer the drouin trade so who are all the other centers we could have aquired for serg? Nashville needed a center at the time even more so then montreal does right now. i still feel galchenyuk can be a 60 + point man and hold down that number 1 center role and with a full season of coaching from julien he should be able to improve on defensive side of things as we'll.


26.) 03 Aug 2017 17:05:19
I don't think Nashville needed a centre more than habs did. I think both had decent players to be 2nd centres and no first. However they had a plethora of good to great Dman to shop with. The habs do not. So if MB had decided not to spend the assets from a weak spot to solve another weak spot, I'd agree it was a good move. But thenspending from a weak spot (good young D) to add to the strongest position next to goaltending and get a winger doesn't make sense to me. If in a year they were a better team than last year, I'm wrong. Also don't see how a fan backing up MBs moves can be critical of David poiles moves lol David Poile who was GM of the year, 2 games away from a cup while habs fell in first round. Same guy who got his #1 centre in a trade and the team got better after. Same guy who traded 10 years of 31 year old Weber to habs for 6 years of 28 year old subban without adding assets or retaining salary. come on man.


27.) 03 Aug 2017 18:13:09
We'll I love the subban/ weber deal we got the better defenseman and shed salary/ cap hit without having to add anything. habs currently have a lot of depth on defense both in junior and nhl ready.


28.) 03 Aug 2017 20:57:29
I'm a huge Weber fan. Loved the way he plays since junior, however In reality if the habs don't win the cup in the next 3 or so years, that deal gets worse by the minute.


29.) 03 Aug 2017 22:16:17
We'll maybe so but I also feel like they would never have a shot at winning the cup with subban as the number 1 dman so it still wouldn't look as bad to me. I had hope for subban during and after the strike year when he won the Norris it was the best 2 way hockey he has ever played. after that he became his inconsistent self again. and in all honesty hasn't been close to the same player since. He looked ok for Nashville but he hasn't been faced with all of the tougher defensive assignments there due to the fact he is at the very best the 2nd best defenseman on the team. imo he is probably the 3rd best. my stomach turned every time I watched him play after he signed that contract. he couldn't and never will match up to that. Even if he has a big offensive year his defense will cancel it out.


30.) 03 Aug 2017 22:25:00
Don't get me wrong overall he's still a good dman but not worth anywhere near 9 mil a year. Weber on the other hand for what he brings besides points. Toughness physicality leadership crease clearing ability all of which he is still among the best in the game at can at least for me nearly justify his cap hit. and should be able to justify it for at least the next 4 or 5 years. After that his cap hit remains the same but his actual salary goes down to like a mil a year so you know as we'll as I do if he's not fitting into the habs plans then some cap team will take him off there hands. i mean the leafs got rid of clarke on for god sake, lol.


31.) 03 Aug 2017 22:25:33
Clarkson.


32.) 04 Aug 2017 14:24:27
It's possible. I agree, I believe Weber is worth every cent of his cap hit. And I don't believe subban is. But the years vs age is where it's going to hurt the habs I think. And I also believe because webers deal takes him to over age 40, even if he retires at 37, 38 their is a massive cap penalty till the end of the deal regardless. Tough one to move later on. Going to have to give up good assets then for teams to take it, which if by then subban is 33 and still effective and not only is the guy you traded him for done, but you're giving up assets 7-8 years later to correct the original deal. I thought it was a good deal for habs at the moment, but just think they should have gone all out for the best available center right after to give the Weber deal the best chance of looking good in 5 years.


33.) 04 Aug 2017 17:18:11
I'm sure they are trying to upgrade the center position Jim and at the time of the trade they probably felt they had galchenyuk as there guy he was coming off a 30 goal season which is pretty good now. Up until his injury last year he was cruising along at a ppg pace so I think they feel the potential is still there. a lot of things can happen with the weber/ subban trade in the next 4 or 5 years. i mean in 5 years with increasing payrolls webers contract will not even seem high maybe. And A guy like chara who was even slower then weber is still playing and still effective not like he was in his prime but he's still a top four dman on most teams I think. i'm not concerned about contract even if they bought him out now it would only cost them1.25 mil. They would pay it for the next 16 years but no biggie lol. If you have time Jim could you figure out what a buyout would cost the habs on the last 4 years of webers deal? i'd be interested to know that.


34.) 04 Aug 2017 18:38:06
The cap recapture I was thinking of actually hurts Nashville far more than the habs. My bad.


35.) 04 Aug 2017 20:07:51
Yes I don't think his contract is as bad or as hard to get out of even if they have to in time that most people think. Most of the actual salary has already been collected. Which would make a buyout much less costly and easier.


36.) 04 Aug 2017 20:10:17
I think the last 3 years of his contract could be bought out for like 350,000 over 6 years. which is really nothing to worry about.


37.) 05 Aug 2017 10:04:35
Okay I'll tell you right now Seguin is not being dragged around by Benn there both elite players.


38.) 05 Aug 2017 10:57:36
If you believe Drai is truly elite, then you go the 9-9.5 million range over 8 years and hope Edmonton is happy with the two firsts, a second and a third. Pretty big gamble. Rumour has it that his agent wants over 10 per year for 8 years and has been pretty firm on that using the 16 playoff points to Mcdavids 9.


39.) 05 Aug 2017 19:49:20
Your right nylander he is pretty good. All I meant was he didn't really become a top player till he got on a line with benn. But it went both ways cause benn improved as we'll. borje I believe the last team to submit an offer sheet to a star player was philly like 5 years ago so that's probably not a realistic option.


 

 

07 Jul 2017 23:31:00
In MB's world, this would be ideal:

Re-sign Markov, 2yrs/7mil (no one is going to give him 12 mil, even Bergevin)

Then...

Edm: RNH
Mtl: Pleckanec, DLR, 2018 1st

Finally:
Mtl signs Jagr to a 1 (or 2) year, for 4 mil per (if lower, then offer markov less)

FortX

1.) 08 Jul 2017 04:52:41
I can't see any of this happening markov can sign else where as fas as I'm concerned and I'm not to keen on jagr at this point either. Nuge will eventually be traded but I don't think edm would want plekanec back in the deal. he's still a solid two way guy and a top notch penalty killer but he really didn't do enough last year to justify his 6mil salary.


2.) 08 Jul 2017 15:02:53
The Edmonton deal is just bad even coming from habs fan.


3.) 08 Jul 2017 19:25:50
Nuge is not worth anywhere near that. Look at what Eberle got. He gets the same or less.


4.) 09 Jul 2017 04:49:39
Borje, we get it. You don't like the Oilers. That's all you know. No idea about hockey.


 

 

 

FortX's talk posts with other poster's replies to FortX's talk posts

 

02 Aug 2017 16:38:14
Couple hours ago there was an article about the potential of Ovi coming to Montreal? Thoughts? Personally, if MB were to make this move, he would have to give up one big roster player/draft pick. I feel like for Montreal there are better options than Ovi, since Patches is filling up the 1st line LW.

FortX

1.) 02 Aug 2017 17:04:46
Washington would sure love to clear cap room I think. not sure they would be interested in trading ovie though. But maybe I guess. also don't be suprised if his comments about going to the Olympics regardless of what the league says hasn't stomped on a few toes. i could for sure see him getting traded not necessarily to the habs. I could also see him staying put or going to the KHL lol who knows.


2.) 02 Aug 2017 17:37:52
Oh please NO! To much money., No Backstrom to get him the puck. he's starting to regress. we already have a sniper in Pacioretty, at a much cheaper rate. Not saying he's as good as Ovi. but I will say he's a better 2 way player.
Habs need a center, or a top 4 dman. not this guy. Also. in all reality, who would they even be able to send to get Ovi. if they had those assets, better off going after Tavares, or a Duchene. someone like that.


3.) 02 Aug 2017 18:41:14
I think ovie could be had for less then tavares maybe even less then what sakic is asking for duchene lol.


4.) 04 Aug 2017 16:15:12
I honestly have no idea what the habs have that washington may want now that they traded away sergachev.


5.) 04 Aug 2017 16:15:27
^^^I meant the capitals would want from the habs.


6.) 04 Aug 2017 16:37:23
I realize i corrected myself even though i didn't write it wrong.


 

 

 

FortX's rumour replies

 

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13 Aug 2017 15:53:06
Omg, this is sooooo legit :D.

FortX

 

 

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13 Jul 2017 02:04:28
Possible.

FortX

 

 

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13 Jul 2017 02:03:52
RNH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X100 over who? lol

tavares value (not skill) >>>> over draisaitl

Edmonton loses sooooo much value.

FortX

 

 

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13 Jul 2017 02:00:45
mtl retains half of pleckys salary, then add a 5th/ 4th.

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