18 Mar 2018 20:12:55
If Evander Kane doesn't resign with San Jose this year:

Max Pacioretty + Jordie Benn + Logan Shaw (rights) to the San Jose Sharks in exchange for Jeremy Roy + Marcus Sorensen + Paul Martin + 2019 1st Round Pick.

- The 2019 1st is conditional to Buffalo if Evander Kane resigns. so if he doesn't, San Jose can just deal it away. They dump Martin at the cost of Sorensen, and get Patches for Roy and an unconditional 1st.

1.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 02:11:25
the only good piece we are getting is a first literally.

2.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 03:50:12
There's really not even enough coming back to justify taking martin tbh. sorenson? Lol good one.

3.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 10:24:46
Thing is, Martin is only on the books for one year, and his 4.5 is equivalent to Patches. Martins contract isn't all that bad when factoring in term. Plus, look at what some teams got back for their cap dumps:

Marc Savard was included with a 2nd Rounder for two AHLers.
Brooks Laich went with Connor Carrick in the Daniel Winnik trade.
Bryan Bickell and Teuvo went for a 2nd and a 3rd.

Paul Martin is at least somewhat servicable and could be something on a pretty terrible Habs blueline. Plus, if this deal happened at the deadline, there really is no issue with Martin, he'd simply be a cap figure.

4.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 15:36:36
So are you saying pacioretty is a cap dump? are you trying to imply martin is equal to pacioretty? I'm just trying to figure out if you honestly think this is a good deal or if your trying to get a rise out of habs fans.

5.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 16:56:55
No, he’s saying that sharks shouldn’t have to include massive assets to move martins contract because his deal isn’t that bad. Then he gives other examples of players with as bad or worse contracts that didn’t cost the team a lot to dispose of. Not saying it’s a good trade but stop looking for reasons to be offended lol.

6.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 17:37:07
At no point does he say Martin is as good as pacioretty lol he says a 4.5 mill cap hit and a 4.5 mill cap hit switching places, both with a year left, makes it easy book keeping. That’s all.

7.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:01:28
Massive assets? Sure an extra 1st round pick is always nice to have but I don't see much else in that offer. plus the pick is for next year and I'd be thinking the habs would want help a little quicker then that. Would you want martin on the leafs jim.? I mean if he wants to trade Paul martin and a 1st for jordie benn that would at least be worth doing from a habs perspective. if you want to unload martin it's going to take more then some scraps especially if you want back one of the top goal scorers in the league.

8.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:07:17
Let's trade juulsen for Matthews close to the same cap hit makes for easy book keeping lol you do realize how stupid you sound jim defending this.

9.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:10:37
Like martin is playing in the minors you both know that right? San Jose signed him and they don't want him anymore why do you think any team would trade anything for him? I mean Paul martin to toronto for matt martin would make more sense.

10.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:15:10
It’s not a good trade for the habs. I agree. Patches is worth more. But when he said Martin and pacioretty made close to the same, he’s not implying a one for one swap is fair. He thinks the other assets included make it fair. I don’t think that, and clearly you don’t either. But he never compared martin to patches as equal players lol relax.

11.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:19:31
Tavares to habs for Alzner, poehling, 1st and another prospect. Now Alzner and Tavares both make 5.5 mill or close to. So the money cancels out. Not saying it’s a good trade and that’s not saying Alzner is as good as Tavares lol it’s not difficult to see what he was talking about.

12.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:22:20
Yes and the reason I asked if he was serious or not was so I could determine whether or not it was worth the trouble to try and explain how bad the trade was for montreal. It was certainly not cause I was offended by someone on here.

13.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:29:26
We'll jim tavares is a ufa so that would be a stupid deal for montreal too unless he was signed. I hope you don't think montreal would unload pheoling and there 1st just to get rid of alzner.

14.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:35:47
I’m not going to drag this on like last time and make everyone else suffer through it. I agree it’s not a good trade. You still want to argue with me even though I agree it’s not good. So I concede Habby. Good win.

15.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 18:37:04
And alzner has a cap hit of 4.6mil not 5.5.

16.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 19:19:14
Thanks jim I usually win.

17.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 19:53:22
Naw lol, i just said cap hit was the same. And I though Jeremy Roy was pretty solid, 31st overall pick in 2015, progressing well.

And another thing is, that 1st is unprotected, and the Sharks are not a 100% playoff team. That could easily be middle of the pack, and could easily even finish in the lottery, depending if teams in the pacific (Edmonton, Calgary, Zona) pick it up as they were supposed to.

Plus, Roy and a 1st for a pretty one dimensional winger (no offence to Patches) is not that bad in my opinion. You're making Martin seem way worse than he is: for a team like Montreal that's going to be a bottom feeder, they can afford to swallow the cap for a year while getting another asset. And honestly, 1 year of Patches for a 1st and Roy is pretty similar to Kessel for Kapanen and a 1st. even tho the Leafs lost that deal. Kessel, with retained salary and term would be more valuable than Patches regardless, so i don't think this is that bad for Montreal. Maybe add in a 3rd or 2nd? Idk. But you're not getting Timo Meier or even Tomas Hertl + 1st for Patches. Just my opinion tho.

18.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 20:02:32
Maaaybe Leblanc could be included? But I agree TSS it’s not a bad trade. Arguing with habby is like arguing with a wall. Pretty obvious the points you and unbiased were trying to make.

19.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 20:24:49
@topshelf, leafs got kappy, 1st, 3rd, Harrington and spaling for kessel while sending a cpl plugs back (Tyler Biggs etc) . They flipped spaling for a second and then sent the 1st and 2nd to ducks for Freddy Andersen. I thought it wasn’t the best deal when they made the kessel trade originally, but how they managed the assets afterwards make it a win for me. We have Andersen, kapanen, and cap space because of it. Plus we probably don’t get Matthews if kessel and his 35 goals are still on the team. And penguins should feel they clearly won it as well.

20.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 20:44:51
@Ebs, one word answers for Habby from now on ‘concede’ lol. I typed a paragraph agreeing and he fought back haha ‘concede’.

21.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 22:25:54
What was kessels cap hit when he was traded? What was the team cap at that time? A lot of difference hey? Kessel didn't get much in trade because of his cap hit not because he wasn't good. Now where you guys are wrong again is when you say pacioretty is one dimensional. He hits he scores and he kills penalties. Kessel only scored so yes kessel is one dimensional so I think you guys know what it means but I think you should take a glance at some stats and then decide whether pacioretty is or not. Cause there are a lot of guys on your current beloved leafs that are more one dimensional then pacioretty. On top of that if your actual trade was pacioretty for roy and a 1st I would not have liked it because IMO roy has really not developed like I thought he would but I would not have bothered to say anything cause yeah that would have been a close proposal. But if you think the habs have to take on martin just to get something in return for pacioretty your not only biased but your also a word you all seem to throw around a lot here. Delusional.

22.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 22:44:09
Concede.

23.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 22:54:27
Okay, but Habby, what do you think Patches could recieve? Patches is one dimensional, just admit it. There isn't much more to him: never will you ever hear of hi, in the category of Bergeron, Toews, or to a lesser extent, guys like Barkov, Matthews and Courturier. He simply isn't a defensive force, and is very relatable to Kessel. Kessel was at 8, and was retained to 6.8, which is more than fair over the next 6 years. In fact, its probably a bargain. Patches is a bargain at 4.5, but you got to remember, its a 1 year deal left. there's a risk that hell leave. And really, Paul Martin isn't that bad for Montreal. If you retain half his salary as Montreal, you could get something for him, and a team like Montreal could afford it tbh.

@Jim

True with what you said about the Kessel trade. But when it happened, I, and probably you too thought it was a bit underwhelming, especially consideeing we sent a 2nd Round Pick (Pittsburghs nonetheless) back to Pittsburgh. That 2nd cancels the 2nd for Spaling, and the cap retention kinda cancels Harrington, uk? that's why I kinda feel Roy + 1st is pretty fair for Patches. Spaling was thoight of as a cap dump when the trade happened, and yet he got a 2nd. Its possibly with retention, Martin coukd do the same here.

Idk tho. I just feel that since its SJ and not a guarranteed playoff team, that 1st would be an excellent piece.

And @Ebs Ty and lol.

24.) 19 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 22:59:54
And also, right now on the Leafs, the only guys I think of that are as 1 dimensional as Patches are Willy and JVR, and to an extent Bozie. And this isn't hate on Patches, its every game I watch with Leafs vs, Habs, he's always 'coasting', as Kessel used to do in Toronto. Some of the players on the Leafs may be on the same level as he is when it comes to defence, but at least they try harder than he does in the dzone. let's run through the forwards:

Hyman: better twoway
Matthews: better twoway
Nylander: even imo
JVR: worse twoway
Bozak: worse twoway
Brown: better twoway and plays with much more energy
Marleau: better twoway, at worst, is even with Patches.
Kadri: better twoway
Marner: his twoway is pretty even with Patches, but he plays with much better pace.
Komarov: better two-way
Kapanen: better twoway: again, great energy player
Plekanec: you know this one, better twoway

Even Johnsson and Leivo and Moore are just as good if not better.

Martins worse but lol who isn't he worse than?

25.) 20 Mar 2018
19 Mar 2018 23:49:33
@TSS I’ve tried to explain that to him, it’s a waste of time. I have nothing against patches, and his cap hit is a steal. And there’s nothing wrong with having a one dimensional player on your team. Kings won the cup with gaborik playing a huge role, pens won with kessel back to back. The problem is when a guy like that is your best player, like patches in Montreal and like kessel was in Toronto. Not the making of a championship team. If pens are built around kessel and not Malkin and Sid, they’re a nothing team. And as good as gaborik was for the kings a few years back, without kopitar and carter ahead of him, they’re not winning that cup.

26.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 00:26:31
And how you mentioned Bergeron, if leafs meet bruins in first round, Matthews is going to have a first hand look at what he needs to become. Bergerons line is the one that’s going to kill you on the score sheet and kill your best players chances too. As good as the leafs have been, they still need Matthews and Kadri to do what Bergeron does. A little more time and hopefully Matthews can put it all together. Facing berg in a 7 game series could be great for his development though.

27.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:30:07
So essentially every player on the leafs are better then pacioretty. Isn't this what I've been saying you thought all along lol.

28.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:32:05
Habby, You make yourself look like a complete idiot a lot of the time.

29.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:32:56
I think patches could get a prospect and a mid range 1st rounder. Without having to take back a useless contract in the deal. If they can't get this then they should just keep him and either trade him at the deadline next year or re sign him.

30.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:44:01
I wanted mtl to draft Roy in the first rd in 2015. He is a great mobild speedy but also good reliable defensively. Only problem is he dosnt stay heathy. Only 10 games last year and out for the rest of the season. That can slow an already usaly slow defensmen progression in the nhl. Wich means instead of being ready for a full time nhl role at 23 like he should of been he might only be they're at 25, 26 wich means the guy can't be worth a tone. How can you expect a guy who barely plays because of injurys in the juniors to develop in a more rough nhl. Therefore mtl should not touch him. Damage goods. How bout this instead

Mtl:Patches

San Jose:Hertl, Conditional first

If Patches get 25+ goals the pick will stay a first. Otherwise no pick.

31.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:48:22
*better two-way. Not better player. Nevr said dat.


And also, if i wrre the habs, i'd rather deal Patches now then wait for the deadline. Price will drop by then tbh.

32.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 01:48:23
You would know yup. What are all the big talkers getting sookie? I guess it's cause someone is actually going back at them for a change. Instead of just hearing the same 3 or 4 guys on here criticize and call people names all day long. Put on your big boy pants guys remember your all keyboard warriors don't get sookie because of little ole me. Keep calling people out and telling them they are stupid and delusional for posting trade proposals.

33.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 03:02:50
Ok TSS jacob de la rose is a better 2way player then william nylander. See how stupid that sounds?

34.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 10:32:49
Yeah, but @habby you're the one who made the argumenr in the first place.

I do agree that JDLR is a better two way player than Nylander.

Your original argument was 'there are a lot of guys on your Leafs that are more one dimensional than Patches'. I retorted and named every Leaf forward, and proved that your argument is only true for three Leafs, which is true. You then accused me of saying 'every leaf player is better than Patches', which is comptely false. When I made that known, you said that the argument is 'stupid'.

Theres no winning there man, its plainly written out. I even agree that JDLR is a better two way guy than Willy. However, as Jim pointed out, if your team is focused around one, one dimensional player, like the Leafs were with Kessel, like the Habs are with Patches now, they won't go anywehere. Its just true.

And on a different note, I'm just wondering, why are you so opposed to taking on Paul Martins comtract? I''m legitimately just curious. Is it becUse it may hurt your teams chance at players in free agency? Do you think that you could acquire more if you take on Martin, and if so what? Because honestky, teams trade cap dumps a lot for minimal additions. We think that guys like Dave Bolland were going to get the sun and the moon and would be untradable: turns out the piece that he was traded with (Crouse) may not be as good as the 2nd he was traded for. And that's Bolland! ONE of the most untradable contracts ever! Martin can still play, and honestly, if Montreal retained 50% salary on him, could be traded out for even more assets.

Montreal needs to be doing this stuff. Turning 'cap dumps' into assets. For Toronto, we never thought ee could trade Nick Spaling, he wasnt doing anything. What happened? We got a 2nd for him. Eric Fehr? The guy who was waived and playing on a different minor league team? Gota 7th for him. Martin at 2.5 million would be able to go to a team that is desperate: and teams dp get desperate at the deadlije and make stupid moves.

35.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 12:07:47
See that's the thing. You're not listening. You're not delusional for posting proposals. You're delusional for your arguments. And you're being called out now by a lot of people. It's been a sad two weeks or so from ya man.

36.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 12:42:33
The thing that makes me laugh is that his hatred for me all started because we were asked ‘why people value Simmonds more than pacioretty’

My honest answer was that pacioretty is a great offensive threat on a great contract but doesn’t do much else. He’s more one dimensional than Simmonds. When he’s not scoring, there’s not much else there. As where Simmonds can affect a game in lots of different ways and will be 10 pts or so less, but the other things he does, like crash nets, get under opponents skin, can fight to change a games momentum, be harder to play against when the games get tough make him my choice.

He will repeatedly throw that in my face and say it’s outrageous and just me being a hab hater and yet what he will never bring up is that in the same week we were asked ‘marner or tkachuk’ and I said both are great at what they do but I would lean towards tkachuk and I quoted almost the same 4-5 points why. So picking a flyer over a hab is delusional and just hating and being biased, And using the same reasoning for picking a flame over a leaf is what?!?! Lol.

37.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 12:58:10
Holy s?! t’! Ok, patches and drouin for Crosby and malkin? Not even close unless I guess you’re a Habs fan, admit it’s a rebuild time and when teams do that, they sell off their best players for picks and prospects, sometimes need a player back to make the books work, not like Montreal is going to make the playoffs anytime soon. They just signed price to a ridiculous contract and stuck with him unless can find some sucker to take him before July 1st. Habs fans I just guess don’t understand what a rebuild is. we want a equal value player for patches! , no, you get picks and prospects.

38.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 14:47:21
Try not to judge all habs fans by this. leave me out of it. probably Sosa too, lol.

39.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 15:22:32
@Thunder. I’m well aware that you and Sosa are not in the same group, even universe lol it’s just got to a point where he’s not even a habs fan anymore, he’s an everyone else hater lol just miserable looking for fights. When you put up a fight with someone for disagreeing with you, fine, but if i write a paragraph agreeing with him, he still picks one word from it to drag the fight longer lol.

40.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 15:28:24
Also Thunder, from another habs fan opinion, is pacioretty a great 2 way player? I don’t watch every minute of every habs game like I do of the leafs, but have seen him play a lot over the years and don’t see it at all. Am I out to lunch saying if patches is your best player, you’re not a cup caliber team? Or do you see him as a guy you can build around, like in a playoff game you want him on the ice with 2 min left whether you’re up a goal OR down a goal?

41.) 20 Mar 2018
20 Mar 2018 19:18:40
Great 2 way player - No. I like him, great scoring touch and what kills me is he has the size to be a better 2 way player. He gets a lot of criticism for it as well - he would lay out a great hit if he did it more often. But he is offensively minded.
Is he our best player. have to say that right now he isn't because he is having a down year. But if you go back to a season ago - ya, he was our best forward. but if you have price playing at his peak; that guy is damn good.

Would i build a team around him - no. I understand that his own team voted him in for the 'C' but he wasn't up against much at that time. Personally, building around a winger really hasn't proved to work in the league we are in right now. That being said, i would rather keep him on my team and get a real 1C and see what he can actually do.

Trade value - pretty much see him getting a 1st round mid-pick and a decent prospect. Or possibly an A prospect with a 2nd and have a condition if he resigns it becomes a first. That might be too much, but being a habs fan i think i'm always going to overvalue my guys - just hope it isn't drastically delusional.
I typically don't respond to too much on here, although i check the site a few times a day and read pretty much everything. So who knows. maybe I just haven't had the chance to be told I'm insane yet, lol.

42.) 21 Mar 2018
21 Mar 2018 00:46:20
Your sane Turkey. plus ya have the best name on here
and I agree with what you said bout Patches.

43.) 21 Mar 2018
21 Mar 2018 04:07:29
That’s exactly how I see him. It’s like JVR too. He’s 6’3 ans well over 200 pounds. Should be more physical, but the way he plays works for him. However I have no problem admitting that JVR is a one dimensional support piece, not a centrepiece of a great team. If JVR was leafs best forward (like he was 2 years ago after kessel was traded) you’re not a good team, and leafs finished 30th and got Matthews that year lol now when pacioretty is supposed to be the best forward in Montreal and they don’t get out of this world goaltending from price for once, they’re a lottery team. Not a coincidence. Habby just can’t see that.